D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[ECMO3]

It's also a stretch to think "normal" = Ready Action, because if it did the phrase would never have been used.

The "normal" you are quoting in fact comes from the description of the Ready action in the rules glossary. That use of "normal" you are quoting is specific to the Ready action.

The phrase "When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal..." only appears in the description of the Ready action. It appears nowhere else in the PHB AFAIK.

As such, absolutely, the phrase above "When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal" == Ready action (ready a spell specifically)

Not only is that not a stretch, it is specifically what it is referring to (whether or not you also use a Magic action as part of that Ready action).

 

[ECMO3]

There's also still a bunch of things they failed to address in the official errata. We can chuck this loophole on the pile!

So there is a ton of errors, but this the ONLY place they neglected to use the term "Magic action" AND they did not fix it in any errata they published.

Yeah, I am not buying that.

 

[Maxperson]

It is very relevant, it just does not refer to the action IMO.

You can't for example ready Command to trigger when the enemy runs around the corner. The reason is the "normal" way you cast that spell requires you to see the target and you can't see it before the enemy runs around the corner.

You can't say when the Orc gets within 30 feet of me I cast Tasha's Hiedous Laughter because THL requires the target to be within 30 feet of you when you cast it.

Then you have all the mechanics associated with spell components.

That is the kind of thing I think they mean by normal. I don't think they mean the action they are using and I don't think this for multiple reasons:

1. I believe if they wanted you to use a Magic action (in addition to a Ready action) they would have stated this explicitly as they do elsewhere when a Magic action is specifically required for things. They would not have assumed people would come to that conclusion from the use of the word "normal"

2. In 2024 using 2 actions on a single turn is very abnormal and using two actions at the same time is flat prohibited and nothing in the verbiage suggests this restriction is waived. In this respect it is far more abnormal to use two actions on your turn then it is to cast a spell with a casting time of 1 action without using the Magic action.

3. The verbiage "ready a spell" makes it clear they want different mechanics for using the ready action with a spell than with the Magic action generally.




Nothing in the verbiage indicates to me that this is why they put the word "normal" in there and this intepretation is inconsistent with the rest of the PHB and DMG where they repeatedly and often in a redundant fashion state that a Magic action must be used to do a certain thing.

Given the wording throughout the rest of the PHB and DMG, if the intent was for "ready a spell" to use the Magic action they would have said this explicitly and not relied on an implicit meaning interpreted from the word "normal".

I don't agree. If they had left the "Cast as normal" out of the action, everyone would still have used targets, components, etc. Nobody was going to look at that action and think, "It doesn't say cast as normal, so I can ignore all the requirements of the spell!"

 

[Scribe]

Yep there is a ton of errata, but the is the ONLY place they neglected to use the term "Magic action" ... AND they did not fix it in any errata.

Yeah I am not buying that.

Probably as so few would allow such obvious twist of the rules, it's not worth the digital ink.

 

[Maxperson]

The "normal" you are quoting in fact comes from the description of the Ready action in the rules glossary. That term "normal" you are quoting is specific to the Ready action.

The phrase "When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal..." only appears in the description of the Ready action. It appears nowhere else in the PHB.

As such, absolutely, the phrase above "When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal" == Ready action (ready a spell specifically)

No. As I said above, nobody was going to think you didn't need to see targets, use the proper distances, etc. without the word normal in there. That it was included means that it refers to the action being taken, not the Ready Action. If it were only the Ready Action, they wouldn't have bothered wasting the space on those words.

 

[pukunui]

So there is a ton of errors, but this the ONLY place they neglected to use the term "Magic action" AND they did not fix it in any errata they published.

Yeah, I am not buying that.

I'm not saying the lack of the specific "magic action" terminology is the problem. Just there is clearly an issue here, so we can toss it on the pile of other unresolved issues that the first round of errata didn't address. At the very least, this could go into a new Sage Advice FAQ.

 

[ECMO3]

No. As I said above, nobody was going to think you didn't need to see targets, use the proper distances, etc. without the word normal in there.

The word normal was in the 2014 PHB before a Magic action was even a thing.

If your argument is "normal" = Magic aciton, why did they already have that verbiage in the 2014 PHB when there was no such thing as a Magic action?

2014: When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs.

2024: When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs.


It is pretty clear to me what they mean by normal and it ain't the Magic action.

 

[Maxperson]

The word normal was in the 2014 PHB before a Magic action was even a thing.

Well, yeah. Because it was the Cast a Spell action. 5.5e just added magic items to it and so they had to rename it. The world normal had the exact same function in 5e as 5.5e.

If your argument is "normal" = Magic aciton, why did they already have that verbiage in the 2014 PHB when there was no such thing as a Magic action?

Cast a Spell action and a limit on spells per round. They changed a minor amount in the "update" to 5.5e, but the function of "Cast as normal" is identical.

2014: When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs.

2024: When you Ready a spell, you cast it as normal (expending any resources used to cast it) but hold its energy, which you release with your Reaction when the trigger occurs.

It is pretty clear to me what they mean by normal and it ain't the Magic action.

Because you are ignoring that it's nonsense to include "cast as normal" it's all contained in Ready Action. "Cast as normal" only makes sense if you are using the Ready Action to perform the Cast a Spell or Magic Action, depending on the edition being used.

There is no good reason to include "cast as normal" if it doesn't refer to those two actions.

 

[mamba]

You conveniently ignored the verbiage "usually".

Activating a Magic item usually does require a Magic action and it says so in the description of most magic items with a feature you would activate or use. It does not say so in the description of most (any?) magic items that allow you to cast a spell.

do the items that require / mention the Magic action easily outnumber the ones that cast a spell? I doubt that, in which case ‘usually’ would be an odd choice of words for this unless it also covered the ones casting spells

 

[pawsplay]

I don't think you can use Action Surge to Cast a Spell, even if the Cast a Spell is part of a Ready action. Action Surge doesn't limit the action type based on the sequence in the round, it's an absolute restriction. Mind you, I don't care for the change, or lots of related issues, but I think it's a clear read.