D&D 5E (2024) Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024

[Maxperson]

This debate isn't going to be settled. What it's run into seems to be mostly "people who feel the rules don't clearly prevent this tactic" vs. "people who feel this is janky and exploitative". One group isn't really going to influence the other without a clear smoking gun.

No no no. If I repeat my view another 1,363 more times before the thread is locked, everyone is compelled to agree with me. The internet said so, and the internet is never wrong.

Personally, I feel that the rules do leave this open as an option. I can't parse "cast normally" as turning one action into another. However, even though this is the same kind of nonsense as what Rogues are allowed to do with Sneak Attack, I don't think it's intended to do this. They changed the wording on Action Surge.* They didn't have to, but they did. It seems they felt that taking a 2 level dip into Fighter as a spellcaster was too prone to spell combo shenanigans (or the community did, take your pick) and wanted to nix it. I can't for the life of me see why they'd change that wording and still leave a jankier workaround in the rules on purpose- they apparently just didn't think to examine the ramifications of their own rules.

It's more than just "cast normally," though. Ready Action also says to pick the action that it going to happen, which means Ready Action just engages that other action at a later time. It's a meta action. The "cast normally" specificity for spellcasting is the specific that overrides the other action happening later and instead the Magic Action(used for spells) is engaged to cast normally and then the energy of the fully cast spell is released later.

 

[James Gasik]

No no no. If I repeat my view another 1,363 more times before the thread is locked, everyone is compelled to agree with me. The internet said so, and the internet is never wrong.

It's more than just "cast normally," though. Ready Action also says to pick the action that it going to happen, which means Ready Action just engages that other action at a later time. It's a meta action. The "cast normally" specificity for spellcasting is the specific that overrides the other action happening later and instead the Magic Action(used for spells) is engaged to cast normally and then the energy of the fully cast spell is released later.

I get what you're saying. But you have to admit it's weird for the book to make a list of possible actions, slap Ready on there, and yet somehow it's not actually an action, it's just the process by which you can make another action resolve while someone else is performing their own actions during the round.

Which means that Ready isn't really an action at all, it's a non-action that modifies another action. It's plainly illogical to make a comprehensive list that includes something that shouldn't be there. Like if I was making a list of the major food groups that went like this:

Fruit
Vegetables
Grains
Protein Foods
Dairy
Botox

I'd like to think nobody would accept my list as fact! What's even weirder about Ready is Readying Movement. Movement is not an action in 5e. You just move up to your speed during your turn. There is no "move action" (there's Dash, I suppose, but it modifies your movement and if you Readied a Dash it would have no effect). But when Readying Movement, that takes up your action!

So Ready isn't an action, Movement isn't an action, but when combined, they are? What kind of nonsense is this, lol. I mean, I get why it has to be an action- if it wasn't, you could Ready Movement while say, you were Incapacitated until the end of your turn (since, you know, nothing stops you from moving while Incapacitated other than plain common sense, lol).

So rather than write rules in a sensical way, WotC is basically saying "c'mon guys, you know what we meant, right?" and thus spawning endless debates over nothing at all!

-

Also, about this: "No no no. If I repeat my view another 1,363 more times before the thread is locked, everyone is compelled to agree with me. The internet said so, and the internet is never wrong."

What happens if someone else repeats their view 1,363 times before you?

 

[Aurel Guthrie]

Also, about this: "No no no. If I repeat my view another 1,363 more times before the thread is locked, everyone is compelled to agree with me. The internet said so, and the internet is never wrong."

What happens if someone else repeats their view 1,363 times before you?

Well you've got to post #1364, of course!

 

[Charlaquin]

There's no way that was intended. The incredibly obvious intent is for Action Surge to be unable to allow a spell to be cast.

It doesn't function technically unless you ignore what "cast normally" means and try to apply to Ready Action which would be an abnormal usage. And then if you DO ignore that, it become technically correct(which is the best kind of correct), but violates RAI.

“Cast normally” is not defined anywhere, but in context is very clearly talking about the normal rules for casting the spell. On the other hand, actions are very clearly defined, and “Ready” is not “Magic.”

 

[Mort]

“Cast normally” is not defined anywhere, but in context is very clearly talking about the normal rules for casting the spell. On the other hand, actions are very clearly defined, and “Ready” is not “Magic.”

It's a long thread, so this may have already been covered (and it doesn't actually apply to the OP which is using a staff) but how do you get around:

One Spell with a Spell Slot per Turn
On a turn, you can expend only one spell slot to cast a spell. This rule means you can’t, for example, cast a spell with a spell slot using the Magic action and another one using a Bonus Action on the same turn.

Notice it says for example (which means not limited to) and casting as a reaction means casting as normal on the turn. You are still casting that turn.

So assuming you just cast a spell with your first action, how can you cast another one (discounting non spell slot spells here, which are exempted in this limitation) with your second? Yes, the spell is likely triggered off your turn, but there is NO question you cast it ON your turn.

 

[Seramus]

I get what you're saying. But you have to admit it's weird for the book to make a list of possible actions, slap Ready on there, and yet somehow it's not actually an action, it's just the process by which you can make another action resolve while someone else is performing their own actions during the round.

It's a half-artifact from 2014 where the Ready action didn't include casting a spell, but you could cast a spell and hold it like a readied action. The distinction is that the latter meant the spell WAS cast and is thus lost if not used.

Two seperate things.

2024 put both of these under the Ready Action category, possibly assuming they were just better organizing a bit of 2014 rules, and accidentally created this argument.

 

[ECMO3]

yeah, all the ones with casting time ‘action’, see the exceptions,

No the exceptions I am talking about are spells with a casting time as an Action.

For example, a Fighter can use the Attack action, not a magic action, to cast Hold Person (a spell with a casting time of an action), a Glamour Bard can cast Command (a spell with a casting time of an action) with a bonus action and not a Magic action, a Valor Bard can cast Truestrike (a specasll with a casting time of an action) with the attack action not a Magic action, A Wizard can cast Greater Invisibility as part of a casting of Contingency without using a Magic action, a Sorcerer can cast Fireball (a spell with a casting time of an action) with a Bonus action and not a Magic action using Quicken spell.

These are all examples of ways that spells that have a casting time of an action but can be cast using something other than a Magic action. These are all exceptions to how "most" such spells are cast. Ready a spell is just one more way of doing this.

 

[mamba]

“Cast normally” is not defined anywhere, but in context is very clearly talking about the normal rules for casting the spell. On the other hand, actions are very clearly defined, and “Ready” is not “Magic.”

and Magic is very clearly defined as required to cast spells with casting time ‘action’

 

[ECMO3]

Exceptions do not indicate a lack of requirement. The exceptions you list specifically spell out how the exceptions work. Unlike Ready Action which says to cast it as normal, which means the Magic Action.

Ready does spell out how it works and "normal" does not mean "use the Magic action: ESPECIALLY since ready does not allow you to take a second action on your turn.

The only thing ready says about the magic action is that you can use the Ready action to "prepare" a Magic action, but then it goes on to describe a completely different way of mechanically readying a spell.

I get it you disagree with me, but in no world do I think normal==Magic action and it isn't used anywhere else in the entire PHB to indicate Magic action. They actually say Magic action when they mean Magic action.

 

[ECMO3]

and Magic is very clearly defined as required to cast spells with casting time ‘action’

Most of the time and there are numerous exceptions when that is not the case. There are many ways of a casting a spell with a casting time of an action without using the Magic action. Ready a spell is one of these exceptions as clearly spelled out in the description.