Using Detect Evil AKA Another Paladin Thread!

[Voadam]

Under the description of the Undead monster type it does not say "always detects as evil" or anything like that. The evil aura of an evil god is different then the person being evil. Like an evil spell is different.

Nope, not under the undead type, but the paladin detect evil power states it detects undead at a certain rate.

Outsiders and clerics of an evil god are at a different rate as well but only if they are Evil or follow an evil god.

An evil cleric of a neutral god only detects as an evil creature.

Yep, the difference is in how they are measured, how many HD or levels they need to hit the different evil aura strength categories.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Under the description of the Undead monster type it does not say "always detects as evil" or anything like that.

You're right; it says that in the Detect Evil spell.

A Lawful Good archlich will register positive reactions to Detect Evil, Detect Good, and Detect Law.

A fallen, Chaotic Evil Lantern Archon will register positive reactions to Detect Evil, Detect Good, Detect Law, and Detect Chaos.

 

[Crothian]

So, it looks like Detect Evil is a very badly named spell. Who knew paladins have been lying to people for years.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

After reading the description years ago, I had my then current Paladin hedge his bets in regard to evil. I just said that there was some evil about that person, or that there was some evil taint. Bellicose declarations that they 'must be evil' struck me as possibly misleading & thus borderline oath violations.

So, it looks like Detect Evil is a very badly named spell. Who knew paladins have been lying to people for years.

It is only misleading if you read more into the title than what it really does. Detect Evil is all about detecting traces of evil from whatever source. To think it means 'Detect that someones alignment is evil' points to a less than thorough reading of the description.

 

[Conaill]

So, it looks like Detect Evil is a very badly named spell.

No, just a very badly designed spell. There is a significant difference.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So, it looks like Detect Evil is a very badly named spell.

Not really, though Detect Evil and Undead would be more honest ...

 

[Wolfwood2]

It is only misleading if you read more into the title than what it really does. Detect Evil is all about detecting traces of evil from whatever source. To think it means 'Detect that someones alignment is evil' points to a less than thorough reading of the description.

999 times out of a 1000 something detecting as evil is going to be evil.

You can talk all you want about your "good undead" and your "neutral clerics of evil gods" and your "redeemed evil outsiders" but those are the exceptions. Rare, freakish exceptions.

As a tool for determining the moral character of regular, ordinary Joes, Detect Evil works just fine.

I mean, it's like if you hear an alarm, rush around the corner, and see a guy standing in front of a smashed-in jewelry store window with a crowbar in one hand and a diamond necklace in the other. Yes, it's possible there's some perfectly innocent explanation... but that's not really the way to bet.

 

[Errant]

One can be evil without doing evil. How does one do that?

joe b.

Imagine the servant who hates kids, loves seeing them cry every time they bump and scrape themselves, but is too cowardly to ever lift a hand against them in case their parents find out. Imagine the arrogant noble who laughs at beggars and other unfortunates. I'd call them evil, and I'd describe them as radiating a 'faint aura of evil' even if they never acted on his impulses.

I think that if you enjoy the suffering of others, whether you cause it or not, you're evil. If you feel guilty about your feelings and do good deeds in atonement, you're probably neutral or maybe even a conflicted good.

I've always considered a complete or general lack of compassion and/or respect for the rights of others to be a key indicator of evil alignment. If you feel compassion or recognise others' rights but don't do anything to aid or protect them you're Neutral. If you do act to aid or protect others, you're doing good. The balance of how predominant each trait is in your actual behaviour determines your alignment. Thats my rationale anyway.

Before you go justifying smiting someone just based they detect as evil, shouldn't you ask yourself 'does the punishment fit the crime'? If you abandon fitting the punishment to the crime aren't you abandoning the core principle of Justice and leaping down the slippery slope to evil yourself?

As for distinguishing between evil spells on people and the people themselves I think it depends a lot on the spell. At best DE lets you sense the strength and location of magical auras. If you can safely say a spell only effects part of a person's body, the location of the aura could be interpreted as only existing in that aura. If you can't say that, you're making the spell even more powerful than it already is and its already powerful enough to be a potential headache.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

One can be evil without doing evil. How does one do that?

Imagine the servant who hates kids, loves seeing them cry every time they bump and scrape themselves, but is too cowardly to ever lift a hand against them in case their parents find out. Imagine the arrogant noble who laughs at beggars and other unfortunates.

Thank god somebody in this thread understands how alignments work! I'd have responded myself, but I have a deep aversion to spending any real amount of time discussing alignment. Too many wasted hours of my life...

I'd call them evil...

Yeah. Because they are.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Wow! Paladins threads are so hot right now!

I leave this thread for a day and come back hoping for a couple of responses and we're already on the second page.

In case anyone is interested, one of the reasons that I asked about this was because I wanted to know if there was a way within the RAW that I could stop a paladin from detecting evil on every single person that he meets. So far I haven't seen anything that makes me think that I can. The only thing that I can think of if he keeps it up is to say that it is an invasion of a person's privacy and that he should only do it if he has some reason to suspect that a person may be evil.

So far he has only tried it on the crew of the ship that he was on at the time and I don't know how he would have reacted or what he would have done had any of the crew actually been evil. I don't have a problem with him using his ability, and there are ways around it for a person wanting to hide the fact that they are evil, but I could see it becoming a problem in the future, more so in slowing the game down and continually putting the spotlight on the paladin than anything else.

From a general gamepalay perspective it seems strange for a character to have an ability at 1st level that he can use at will undetected to see if someone is good or evil at heart. I know that someone being evil doesn't necessarily mean that the paladin can therefore just go up and attack them but still there should be some way for a person to know that someone is checking their aura. Surely a high level cleric should be able to (or at least have a chance to) somehow feel if a paladin is trying to detect evil on him. When you scry on someone they get a save against it, why not detect evil?

As for some sort of insight as to what might happen should my paladin detect someone as evil, last session the party fought a malenti (a type of sahaugin or sea devil). After defeating the creature the paladin and cleric stabilised it and then brought it back onto the ship where the paladin tried to get it to change its evil ways and see the light of good (using rules from the Book of Exalted Deeds). The paladin and cleric spent 4 days trying to change the malenti before the party reached port. Currently they have the creature wrapped up in a bolt of cloth and plan to continue their attempts to get it to change its ways!

I certainly didn't expect that to happen but it could make things interesting. At least they are in the city of Freeport so no-one really say anything if they see someone carrying what looks to be a body over their shoulder.

Olaf the Stout