Using Detect Evil AKA Another Paladin Thread!

[painandgreed]

One can be evil without doing evil. How does one do that?

He said doing something wrong, not evil. You can be evil (in 3.5) in a good society and not really stand otu from the rest of the population. To be evil (in 3.5), all you have to do is not care about innocents. Passing up a begger without feeling compassion for them is evil. Love and do anythign for your friends and family but not caring about others is evil. You don't even have to wish them harm, but rather the simple lack of compassion for the innocent is evil. Such a person coudl even still give alms and aid to the innocent because it is required by social convention, but that he doesn't care would make him evil.

 

[Crothian]

But the point is evidence of what exactly. Detecting as evil is not generally a crime. Doing evil generally is.

Why not? If you detect as evil, you are evil. If you are evil, you've done something evil to get that way. And with magic it won't take long to determine what that is.

 

[Thotas]

I don't know of a "Spider-sense" for evil in the Core RAW, but Fantasy Flight's Dungeon Craft has a Sense Evil spell (Cleric 2, Ranger 3).

If someone shows as evil to any detect, it just tells you that they can't be trusted. Some other person may have committed the evil deed you're investigating. The suspect may be guilty of something even worse than what you're checking on. Maybe the worst he's ever done is steal an apple at the market, but would commit genocide on the next kingdom for fun if he ever got the chance. It's similar to a policeman checking to see if the person he's pulled over has any priors -- doesn't always mean too much by itself, but in context it could be vital info.

 

[Voadam]

Why not? If you detect as evil, you are evil. If you are evil, you've done something evil to get that way. And with magic it won't take long to determine what that is.

Unless you are a neutral or good undead. Or a neutral cleric who follows an evil god. Or someone who has an evil spell (like protection from good) on them at the time.

And even if they are evil, not all evil is illegal. Being a cruel, vindictive sadist is not a crime. Assaulting and torturing is, unless done on the king's orders.

 

[Green Knight]

He said doing something wrong, not evil. You can be evil (in 3.5) in a good society and not really stand otu from the rest of the population. To be evil (in 3.5), all you have to do is not care about innocents. Passing up a begger without feeling compassion for them is evil. Love and do anythign for your friends and family but not caring about others is evil. You don't even have to wish them harm, but rather the simple lack of compassion for the innocent is evil. Such a person coudl even still give alms and aid to the innocent because it is required by social convention, but that he doesn't care would make him evil.

No, that's neutral. That's the epitome of selfishness. To be evil, you have to do evil. It isn't enough to not just care about the plight of some poor sucker. You have to hurt them to be evil.

Neutrality is the lack of action, either way, no matter what the reason. If you see some beggar on the street, and you give you some coins, food, etc, you're good. If you instead decide you'd like to take what little money he's been able to collect from begging, or slit his throat, then you're evil. If you just walk by, no matter what the reason, you're neutral.

 

[Conaill]

Why not? If you detect as evil, you are evil. If you are evil, you've done something evil to get that way. And with magic it won't take long to determine what that is.

Heh - I remember Hypersmurf reciting a long litany of ways someone could show up under Detect Evil without actually *being* evil.

Detect Evil detects evil *auras*, not actually the alignment of the creature. For example, a Godo aligned ghost might still have an evil aura, simply because it's an undead.

 

[Crothian]

Unless you are a neutral or good undead. Or a neutral cleric who follows an evil god. Or someone who has an evil spell (like protection from good) on them at the time.

If you are a neutral or good whatever...you won't detect as evil. If your god is evil, but you are not;l again you won't detect as evil. If you have an evil spell on you, you won't detect as evil, the spell will.

And even if they are evil, not all evil is illegal. Being a cruel, vindictive sadist is not a crime. Assaulting and torturing is, unless done on the king's orders.

WEll, being cruel can be illegal depends how you are doing it. But if the person is evil and actually not guitly of a crime, then that is what will be shown.

 

[Django]

IMC, in order for a person to be any alignment other than Neutral, they would have to actually seek out to do things of that particular alignment. If a player wants to be Good, they have to go out actively pursue an agenda of Doing Good Things. If someone detects as a particular alignment, it is safe to conclude that thay have acted appropriately for their alignment.

A nice by product of that is that if you detect as Evil, then it is a forgone conclusion that you have actively Done Evil and are fair game for any Paladin.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Probably about 20% to 30% of human beings are Evil as D&D defines it. You don't have to be breaking the law to be evil. You just have to be willing to screw over other people for your own benefit. The innkeeper who waters down his drinks, the sailor who makes his mates clean up his messes, the petty beauracrat who takes enormous pleasure in tormenting people what what little power he has.... these are the mundane, everyday evils of life.

A paladin can't just go around smiting these people either. Quite apart from them not having committed any (large) crimes, most of them are probably redeemable. Few people set out in life to be a jerk. A paladin has to reach out to these people via word and deed, to present them with an example of a better way to live.

As someone said, it must be difficult to be a paladin without becoming a cynic. You constantly see how low so much of humanity sinks.

The house rule I advocate is relaxing the restriction against associating with evil. I'd say that if a paladin is actively trying to reach and and reform someone, it's okay for him to associate with evil. Whether that be sailing on a ship with evil sailors or drinking in a tavern with an evil barkeeper.

Now of course, the vast majority of evil the paladin senses is going to be faint evil. If he senses something stronger than that, it should definitely get his attention. Whether it's an undead, a priest of an evil god, or just a really high level evil NPC, he knows it's something he needs to investigate.

The the DM who started this thread, I say let your player use Detect Evil as much as he wants. Tell him that on average, 30% of the people he detects are evil and you're only going to mention the ping on a specific character if it seems relevant or if he gets something stronger than faint evil.

Shouldn't cause too many problems.

 

[Conaill]

If your god is evil, but you are not;l again you won't detect as evil.

Are you sure of that? The "Aura Power" table clearly lists "Cleric of an evil deity", without any qualifier regarding to the alignment of the cleric himself.

If you have an evil spell on you, you won't detect as evil, the spell will.

So you claim Detect Evil can distinguish between a creature and a spell cast on a creature? Detect Evil only tells you the number, power and location of auras. By the RAW, I don't see how you could tell if it's a spell cast *on* a creature...[/QUOTE]