Using Extra-Dimensional Space to Circumvent Teleportation Restrictions

[airwalkrr]

This is something that has bugged me for a long time in 3rd edition. (It did not bother me in AD&D because my usual DM at the time never allowed it to work, and my group never knew the rules back then anyway so we did not argue.) Recently, I have seen players try to circumvent the limitations on astral travel such as teleport and dimension door by using extradimensional spaces such as bags of holding. To put it technically, player characters will jump into bags of holding and the like while a wizard casts teleport, enhancing the virtual capacity of the teleport spell. The same trick is done with loot.

Now the way I see it, the purpose of a bag of holding is to allow you to carry more loot out of a dungeon by increasing your virtual carrying capacity. I also understand that technically, a bag of holding isn't really holding anything so much as providing a gate to an extradimensional space. However, it seems meaningless to me (and therefore not in the spirit of the rules) to have limitations on weight and creature capacity for astral travel spells like teleport when a relatively cheap magical item like a bag of holding can be used to circumvent those limitations by the time those spells become available.

Maybe I am counting beans here, but does this make sense or not? Is there a clearly defined rule about how bags of holding and similar items interact with astral travel and teleportation to maintain these limitations? And finally, regardless of whether you feel the RAW allows it or not, do you think it SHOULD be something that is allowed? If so, why have such limitations on teleport in the first place? Why aren't demons and devils using bags of holding to transport large quantities of their kin in the Blood War to circumvent the 50 lbs. of objects restriction? Etc. What do you think?

 

[bestone]

duly noted - buying the mage in the group bags of holding now, muah-hah for easy mass transport

 

[shilsen]

Now the way I see it, the purpose of a bag of holding is to allow you to carry more loot out of a dungeon by increasing your virtual carrying capacity.

The way I see it, the purpose of a bag of holding is to allow you to do whatever you're creative enough to do with it.

However, it seems meaningless to me (and therefore not in the spirit of the rules) to have limitations on weight and creature capacity for astral travel spells like teleport when a relatively cheap magical item like a bag of holding can be used to circumvent those limitations by the time those spells become available.

"Spirit of the rules" is a highly arbitrary concept, and it's likely that your idea of the spirit of the rules varies greatly from many other people's. Consider, however, that the limitations on weight and creature capacity remain extremely important when these spells have to be cast in a time-sensitive situation, e.g. combat, when one doesn't have the leisure of climbing into a bag of holding.

Maybe I am counting beans here, but does this make sense or not?

To me, it makes sense and you are counting beans.

Is there a clearly defined rule about how bags of holding and similar items interact with astral travel and teleportation to maintain these limitations?

Other than not putting Bags of Holding in Portable Holes, not AFAIK.

And finally, regardless of whether you feel the RAW allows it or not, do you think it SHOULD be something that is allowed?

Yes, I think it should.

If so, why have such limitations on teleport in the first place?

See my point above about time-sensitive use of the spells. Also, in many games, just because casters have these spells, one cannot assume they also have easy access to bags of holding and the like.

Why aren't demons and devils using bags of holding to transport large quantities of their kin in the Blood War to circumvent the 50 lbs. of objects restriction? Etc.

Who says they aren't? They may not in my game, because the Blood War doesn't exist, but they could definitely do so in someone else's.

What do you think?

I think you're overreacting, but then it's your game. Play it how you want. In my game, I am very happy for my players to get creative with such items and spells.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

It's a silly rules loophole that is just begging for a DM to rule-zero it. I dunno what kind of game other people are running, but having PCs say, "Let's jump into the bag of holding so we can teleport out of here!" is just plain silly, IMO.

I dunno whether it's in the spirit of the rules or not, but I'd bet good money that it wasn't thought of by game designers when they created the 3E bag of holding.

Personally, I think you shouldn't be able to put living creatures inside a bag of holding. Problem (and silliness) solved.

p.s. People really don't need to counter-quote every single thing another poster said. It's tedious and I, for one, personally stop reading after the first few counter-quotes. It just looks petty.

 

[Starglim]

As long as the bag is not overloaded and is closed when the spell goes off, I see no obstacle to this.

Carrying a PC in the bag may be a bit undignified, but if the bag has enough free weight and space and a PC is willing to spend a full round or more getting in and out of a 2' sack, and to stake his life on his companions opening the bag within 10 minutes, it's a legitimate use. Better hope there are no mishaps or surprises waiting at the other end. Cohorts and followers, much less hirelings and allies, are unlikely to agree to this treatment.

Carrying objects in the bag is the purpose of the item.

If the designers didn't intend the bag to carry extra weight through a teleport, they would have described how it would fail in such a case.

 

[bestone]

If the designers didn't intend the bag to carry extra weight through a teleport, they would have described how it would fail in such a case.

Wizards designers are not noted for thier foresight

You cant expect game designers to be able to envision every combination of uses for items/spells....not realistically anyways.

You'd be more correct in saying They would put it into the erratta

 

[shilsen]

p.s. People really don't need to counter-quote every single thing another poster said. It's tedious and I, for one, personally stop reading after the first few counter-quotes. It just looks petty.

I wasn't doing it to counter-quote and looking petty is, well, in the eye of the beholder so not something I can control. I do it for reasons of completeness and because I'm anal

 

[Piratecat]

In the same way that a person can't fit into the opening of a backpack, I have trouble believing that they could fit into a bag of holding. A portable hole, though? No problem.

 

[Almacov]

Well, if you really wanted to stop your players from using the bag of holding that way in your game, you could just rule that the space automatically vacuum-seals whenever the bag closes. : P
Of course, they'd probably find another spell/magic item to circumvent the lack of oxygen, but at least it would be a bit more costly for them.

 

[Thanee]

Recently, I have seen players try to circumvent the limitations on astral travel such as teleport and dimension door by using extradimensional spaces such as bags of holding.

Old trick. More power to those who think of it.

But yeah, size restrictions are certainly an issue (of course there is Reduce Person to change that...).

Bye
Thanee