Using Extra-Dimensional Space to Circumvent Teleportation Restrictions

[Almacov]

In the same way that a person can't fit into the opening of a backpack, I have trouble believing that they could fit into a bag of holding. A portable hole, though? No problem.

Unfortunately, a diameter for the opening of a bag of holding isn't given in the RAW, but when they describe the bag's size in general they say it "appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size.", and the players would likely argue that it's not usually difficult for a human to fit through a 2-foot square opening. There is of course an easy way around this as a DM: Tell them how big the opening is in YOUR world. That way they at least have to waste a reduce person spell or something.

 

[Particle_Man]

Sounds like a trouble-maker could plant a portable hole on a player character and wait for them to do that trick for the second time.

 

[green slime]

Old, old trick.

So old, it even appears in fantasy writings.

 

[GorTeX]

I think that putting living creatures in a Bag of Holding and teleporting is pushing the limits of the rules, while filling the bags with treasure and teleporting is perfectly fine. Of course, dead teammates count as 'treasure' as they are non-living

Besides, the teleport's power is highly variable...You can teleport yourself (up to max load) plus one/3 levels at max load. I'd think that all the people teleported will have different max loads. Teleport 4 Str 22 medium creatures gives you much more carrying capacity than teleporting 4 str 8 guys.

I would definitely agree that if you teleport with a Live creature in an extradimensional space, then that creature counts towards how many you can teleport. To me, it's more a question of number of living beings teleported than the actual weight teleported.

 

[bestone]

I think that putting living creatures in a Bag of Holding and teleporting is pushing the limits of the rules, while filling the bags with treasure and teleporting is perfectly fine. Of course, dead teammates count as 'treasure' as they are non-living

Besides, the teleport's power is highly variable...You can teleport yourself (up to max load) plus one/3 levels at max load. I'd think that all the people teleported will have different max loads. Teleport 4 Str 22 medium creatures gives you much more carrying capacity than teleporting 4 str 8 guys.

I would definitely agree that if you teleport with a Live creature in an extradimensional space, then that creature counts towards how many you can teleport. To me, it's more a question of number of living beings teleported than the actual weight teleported.

True, you could always, as a dm, say the extradimensional space is void of air, or is in fact, a vacuum, you have to put things in it, i guess you "could" put air in it. But we are just assuming there is such

 

[0-hr]

A common 2x4 sack is going to have it's opening at the 2 ft end. When opened up that gives you 48 inches of circumference (or a 15.3 inch diameter circle). That's not much more than a standard pillowcase.

Can a man fit through that? Probably, as long as he is unarmored, not wearing a backpack or cloak, or carrying a shield or other bulky object.

And it is important to keep this in mind:

This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size.... If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever.

Spiked armor? A spear? It would be hard to stuff that into a pillow case and not have a puncture somewhere. If you are putting razor-shapr metal into a cloth sack, it's not going to take much to rip the cloth. Losing loot is bad enough, but a character?

If the PCs are known for porting with people in bags, have their nemessis waiting at the other end with his mooks ready to attack that object. A single arrow or knife into the cloth sack and those riding inside are "lost forever".

 

[Twowolves]

I don't recall if it's in the 3rd ed item description, but in the past, the bag specifically stated that nothing over 1 foot in diameter could be put into the bag. Also, there is no air in the bag beyond what you bring with you. If the party has time to strip down and/or Reduce Person, hold your breath and hop in, then I see no problem with it. And a Portable Hole should be no problem at all. Of course, if something happens to delay the unloading of the bag by a minute or two at the end of the trip, well, it becomes a Bag of Corpse Holding....

 

[Jack Simth]

It's the portable holes that get abusive. But then, there's trust issues.

If the Wizard/Sorcerer/Travel Domain Cleric/Whatever is the one teleporting you, you're trusting that character with your life. For a convenience. (Unless you've got Plane Shift or better, you aren't getting back out without rupturing the bag until it's opened.. and you likely need air, food, water.... and rupturing the bag strands you on the Astral, unless you've got Plane Shift or better....)

You're trusting that character with any extradimensional storeage you may have (Handy Haversacks, other bags of holding, et cetera).

You're trusting that the bag won't get ruptured somewhere along the line.

For an unexpected need to escape, you just make sure everyone has a Cape of the Mounteback (dimension Door, 1/day, only 10,080 gp; guidelines, 15,120 gp to add it to your existing Cloak of Resistance).

 

[Sejs]

Gee, sure hope you don't have anything pointy on you when you climb in that bag...

Pretty tight squeeze to get in, after all. It'd be a real shame if the fabric caught on the corner of an armor plate and ripped...

 

[Victim]

Characters using a bag of holding to transport other characters aren't using it to transport stuff. Moreover, getting into and out of the bag isn't going to be easy - don't try it in combat. A portable hole makes the process much easier - probably one of the reasons why it costs more. But a party using the hole to bring its people around will be more vulnerable initially, and will have fewer actions to use immediately. One person will have to spread out the hole, and then the people inside will have to climb or fly out (yet more complications). As opposed to having everyone ready to fight immediately. And if the beachhead force is somehow neutralized before deploying the hole, then the rest of the group is in trouble. Plus there is the trust issue mentioned above.

Bad guys can also pick up the portable hole if they get there quickly enough. It's what our group did when some cultists used a hole to bring undead with them to a party.

Why aren't demons and devils using bags of holding to transport large quantities of their kin in the Blood War to circumvent the 50 lbs. of objects restriction?

Because the frequency of Greater Teleport at will among demons and devils is such that the fiends without it aren't worth bringing in the numbers you can fit inside XD spaces? Looking at core demons, Dretches, Quasits, Bebiliths, and Retrievers lack the ability to teleport. The ones that would be worth bring along in the numbers you can fit inside an XD space aren't going to fit. Maybe they do bring stuff/people along occasionally, but the ability isn't going to be that critical considering how many of them can already 'port.

I don't really think it's a big deal. Consider the classic 4 man party - rogue, fighter, wizard, and cleric. By the time Teleport is available, the entire group can be brought along. Using a few workarounds in a larger group to preserve the same capability (group travel) doesn't seem like a big deal.

Also, a party could also use STR boosting magics to increase characters' load and thus manipulate the capacity of the spell in that way.