D&D General Using Paladin and Warlock to Remake Bard (+)

[doctorbadwolf]

Okay so the + is just basically, I don't need to know how much you think the basic idea or premise sucks or how Bards are already really strong so they don't need any editing, or whatever.

Premise:

A. Bards don't feel like Bards, and what they do feel like would be better as part of the Rogue anyway, and doesn't even need to be magical.

2. Bard songs from 3.5 were one of the best examples of lore matching mechanics in DnD's history, and they are worth bringing back.

So what do?

IMO, the answers are manifold and complimentary.

• Take inspiration from Paladin auras
• Drop Jack of All Trades and instead give Bards a choice like Holy Order, where they can either get all the weapon and armor proficiencies or get a bonus to Int skills equal to Cha mod
• Give Bards the ability to Help as a bonus action (maybe in tier 2 or 3, rather than tier 1)
• At level 1 you get Bardic Inspiration, and you can spend it to give a 1d4 bonus to all allies within 30ft who can hear you. They can use the die once to add to any roll.
• At level 6 or so, you get an aura feature x per day that lasts 1 hour, benefiting all allies within 30ft of you who can hear you when you activate the aura. You choose the effect when you use the feature. (this could cost a Bardic Inspiration instead of being it's own thing)
  • Words of Courage - saves against fear and damage rolls
  • Words of Wisdom - saves against charm and attack rolls (maybe)
  • Words of Care - They can add the bonus to healing they receive or to a save to end an ongoing effect
  • Words of Cunning - Checks and saves relating to illusions, insight checks, deception checks
• Reduce the spellcasting of the class to 5th level maximum spell slots like that 2024 playtest version of the Warlock, where it is full casting up to that point but it stops at level 5
• Drop Magical Secrets and instead have Bard exclusive abilities called Songs of Inspiration. You learn 1 Song of Inspiration at each level you would have gotten magical secrets. Each one lasts for at least 1 minute and you can only have one active at a time. Each one is an upgrade of a Words of Inspiration option. You can use each Song you know once per long rest
• All Bards have Bane prepared, and gain legend lore always prepared at the appropriate level
• Possibly add enemy debuff options to all those ally helping features listed above
• Add some spells with longer casting times that are basically "tell a story and give a long lasting buff"

So, anyone like the idea? Take some bits from Paladin, Warlock, and Cleric/Druid, and add some lorekeeping and storytelling features, and make a class that is powerful when they speak, who knows more than anyone else in general, and who hopefully feels like a lorekeeper and storyteller first and foremost.

 

[Horwath]

Agree with most, but...

I would improve d4 to d6 simply because I hate that cursed die.

Halfcasting is OK for bards if compensated elsewhere,
I even have the table for halfcasters that gain new spell levels at the rate of full casters, but capped at 5th level and keeping Spell point budget mostly the same:

1st table is official, 2nd table is modified for faster spell level gains.

Help as Bonus action is a low impact feature, it should stay in Tier1.

As for auras, they could be always on, just changing them as a Bonus action at will.
maybe add scaling at various levels for radius increase, 30,60,90,120,150ft

 

[mellored]

So a full homebrew class, not using the current classes.

Drop Jack of All Trades and instead give Bards a choice like Holy Order, where they can either get all the weapon and armor proficiencies or get a bonus to Int skills equal to Cha mod

I'm don't think heavy armor and greatswords is good for bards, even Valor ones.

But a choice of Medium + Shield vs +Cha to int skills sounds good.
Martial weapons can be a subclass upgrade.

• At level 1 you get Bardic Inspiration, and you can spend it to give a 1d4 bonus to all allies within 30ft who can hear you. They can use the die once to add to any roll.
• At level 6 or so, you get an aura feature x per day that lasts 1 hour, benefiting all allies within 30ft of you who can hear you when you activate the aura. You choose the effect when you use the feature. (this could cost a Bardic Inspiration instead of being it's own thing)
  • Words of Courage - saves against fear and damage rolls
  • Words of Wisdom - saves against charm and attack rolls (maybe)
  • Words of Care - They can add the bonus to healing they receive or to a save to end an ongoing effect
  • Words of Cunning - Checks and saves relating to illusions, insight checks, deception checks

Level 1
Bardic Inspiration
Expertise in Performance.
As a bonus action choose one of the following. Creatues you choose within 30' gains the effect until the start of your next turn, or until you lose concentration as if you where concentrating on a spell. You can use this at-will.
+1d4 to Attack rolls
-1d4 to Attack rolls
+1d4 to Skill checks
-1d4 to Skill checks.

Level 3
Subclass adds a other effects Bardic Inspiration.
-Dance bards increase to 60'.
-Valor bards add it to their damage rolls.
-Moon bards get an additional option to give Resistance to an elemental damage type.

Level 5
When you use Bardic inspiration, select 2 effects. You can choose different creatures for each effect. You also gain the following options.
Opportunity attacks have disadvantage
Opportunity attacks have advantage.
+1d4 to saving throws
+5' of Movement.
Advantage of Death saving throws.

Level 11, select 3 effects. New options.
Immunity to Fear
Immunity to Charm.
Resistance to Psychic
-1d4 to saving throws

Level 20, when you gain this level choose 2 Bardic Inspiration options. They are permanently added to your Bardic Inspirations, in addition to the other choices.


This way rather than invocations that make you play 1 song you play over and over again, you can change it on the fly.
And concentration keeps it from stacking, letting it be at-will.

Reduce the spellcasting of the class to 5th level maximum spell slots like that 2024 playtest version of the Warlock, where it is full casting up to that point but it stops at level 5

Half caster, but you can pick any spell from the Cleric, Druid, or Wizard list.
I don't think the bard list has any unique spells anyways.

gain legend lore always prepared at the appropriate level

Sure.

 

[Horwath]

I'm don't think heavy armor and greatswords is good for bards, even Valor ones.

But a choice of Medium + Shield vs +Cha to int skills sounds good.
Martial weapons can be a subclass upgrade.

off topic, but more times this gets mentioned, more I think that we only need one category of weapons and all are proficient.

Extra attack(s), masteries, styles, feats, maneuvers, attack riders, basic investment in STR or DEX are more than enough to distinguish "martials" from "amateurs".

as for armors, min STR for all armors is more than enough.

want to be a fullplate wizard? get 16 STR,
want to dump STR and have it at 8? here is a nice padded armor for you.

optional:
for classical "heavily armorred classes" we can add that your effective STR is 2 pts higher for wearing armor.

 

[CreamCloud0]

i think i'd want more features that identifies bard more into being a INT user, highlighting their identity as the storyteller-loremaster using the knowledge skills rather than leaning so hard on the entertainer-performer aspects.

personally if you're reducing them to a halfcaster i think magical secrets can stay, i always thought it was thematic in picking up bits of magical knowledge and with half-progression it's much less exploitable.

 

[mellored]

as for armors, min STR for all armors is more than enough.

we only need one category of weapons and all are proficient.

Instead of +Str to damage, you could just use Str for the weapon requirement.

I.e.
Daggers: 1d4, no requirement
Short Sword: 1d6, 13 Str
Longsword: 1d8, 15 Str
Greatsword: 1d12, 19 Str

Do the same for shields
Buckler: +1 AC, no requirement
Sheild: +2 AC, 15 Str
Tower Shield: +3 AC, 17 Str

 

[Horwath]

Instead of +Str to damage, you could just use Str for the weapon requirement.

yes, but I would also add STR or DEX to damage, simply to have more damage and to prevent dealing "1" damage on attack. that is so underwhelming.

I.e.
Daggers: 1d4, no requirement
Short Sword: 1d6, 13 Str
Longsword: 1d8, 15 Str
Greatsword: 1d12, 19 Str

for 19-20 min str and no STR bonus to damage, that greatsword better deal 3d8 damage

Do the same for shields
Buckler: +1 AC, no requirement
Sheild: +2 AC, 15 Str
Tower Shield: +3 AC, 17 Str

I was more in 10,14,16 line(also I hate odd scores and cant want when modifiers replace scores 100% in the game)

 

[Horwath]

Also, if bard is a halfcaster, maybe ability to learn any spell could be default feature.

or making bard 2/3rd caster.
7 level of spells, at class levels:
1,4,7,10,13,16,19