Using polymorph for a huge boost in AC

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

So you don't get natural armor as a polymorphed form? Solves that problem.

No, you can gain some extraordinary abilities, such as a troll's rend attack, but you won't gain the troll's regeneration. What's the big deal abut thick skin, anyway? It's just layers of calcite deposits over very thick muscles.

 

[Forrester]

As powerful and 'broken' as it may seem, Polymorph is just as useful to the villains and NPCs as it is to the PCs themselves.

Yes, and I decided that the game would be far less interesting if all high-level PC/NPC battles came down to a question of whether one side had a buddy who was a 7th+ level wizard.

The idea of all parties, PC and NPC, in the entire world, traveling around looking like giants or hags or trolls, just seems to me to be really really dumb. But that's my world; I can see it making sense in some worlds.

Mostly those that allow Whirlwind/Cleave . Seriously, as long the DM makes sure that all NPCs who have a 7th level wizard buddy have this on them in possibly hostile locales, it's less of a problem. Not much less, but somewhat less . . .

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

Stone giant! +11 natural armor ans dex 15... my fighter 2/ wizard 17 uses it all the time, geting a 47 or so ac...

 

[Uller]

First off...I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was "broken". It just strikes me as odd that when my player's 15th level PC casts ONE spell she suddenly can only be hit on a nat 20 most of the monsters in the adventure.

Does that make the spell broken? Well...she also nearly died twice in the last session. Once she struck a half-fiend cloud giant who was protected by Unholy Aura twice and lost 10 points of strength, then he nailed her with Contagion for another 4 points (and nearly blinded her to boot). Then he proceeded to grapple her and took her down to 5 hit points befor the other PCs "rescued" her.

Later she took a direct hit by chain lightning followed by the better part of a meteor swarm knocking her down to 1 hit point. So it is not like my NPCs aren't getting around her high AC. And I've got an NPC in this game with a 40 AC and SR 29 without having to cast a single spell! I don't know what the hell they'll do with that...Even the Arcane Archer will miss 50% of the time with his best attack!

So broken it ain't. I guess what really strikes me as odd is that natural armor and armor bonuses stack. It would be like wearing +5 leather armor under +5 full plate and claiming that give you a +20 armor bonus to AC...I'm not advocating a house rule here either because that would throw too much other stuff out of whack, I think.

 

[LokiDR]

So you don't get natural armor as a polymorphed form? Solves that problem.

No, you can gain some extraordinary abilities, such as a troll's rend attack, but you won't gain the troll's regeneration. What's the big deal abut thick skin, anyway? It's just layers of calcite deposits over very thick muscles.

If rend is an ability listed with (ex) you do not get it. That has always been in the spell description.

 

[LokiDR]

So broken it ain't. I guess what really strikes me as odd is that natural armor and armor bonuses stack. It would be like wearing +5 leather armor under +5 full plate and claiming that give you a +20 armor bonus to AC...I'm not advocating a house rule here either because that would throw too much other stuff out of whack, I think.

Ya, it does. It may seem like a lot, but at 15th level you have to expect semi extreem situations. In Tome&Blood, one of the items it suggests for the casters is an amulet of natural armor, for the extra AC.

 

[Plane Sailing]

First off...I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was "broken". It just strikes me as odd that when my player's 15th level PC casts ONE spell she suddenly can only be hit on a nat 20 most of the monsters in the adventure.

Except of course by incorporeal creatures... or by *anything* that decides to make a grapple (or other touch) attack. Constrictors would spoil your day, as would many other creatures which you face at 15th level.

It seems strange if the foes you face at 15th level relied purely upon swinging weapons with no consideration of alternative tactics... (unless they were collosal dire scorpions or something equally verminous!)

 

[Numion]

Stone giant! +11 natural armor ans dex 15... my fighter 2/ wizard 17 uses it all the time, geting a 47 or so ac...

PsyWarrior (16th level) in my game broke the 50 - barrier last time. Ectoplasmic armor, Shield of Prudence, Animal Affinity etc etc. Good stuff.

 

[Forrester]

First off...I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was "broken". It just strikes me as odd that when my player's 15th level PC casts ONE spell she suddenly can only be hit on a nat 20 most of the monsters in the adventure.

I guess we have different definitions of the word "broken".

 

[Uller]

I guess we have different definitions of the word "broken".

My definition is that it is broken if it makes a particular character or NPC somehow far far more effective than other characters or NPCs of a similar power level most of the time and in most circumstances. I've not seen that with polymorph (yet). I can see it doing that, but it hasn't happened in my game (as I pointed out, the character in question has not been the most effective character in the game). I guess part of what makes it so powerful is that damnable duration...

For instance, Haste is a powerful spell. But its very short duration severly limits its usefulness. A hasted blinking Rogue is a force to be reckoned with but since those two effects have such a short duration, it is often not a problem.

Unfortunately, the duration is necessary for many reasonable uses for the spell. Like if you want to turn into something with some alternate mode of movement (like flying) to cover great distances or move across terrain that would be difficult to traverse in your usual form. I don't want to remove the ability of my players to use it for those purposes. At the same time, a single casting of the spell is enough for all the encounters for that day. Our sorcerer can cast it often enough that she can basically treat it like the T&B spell without the penalties...she likes to switch forms between Formian Myrmarch and Fire Giant.

BTW...where does it say that you can't become an outsider? I've not seen that restriction. Even so, at this point, I'm not going to take away her ability to take that form at this point. We're running a one shot high-level adventure and are 3 sessions into it with probably only one or two more to go. Maybe after the adventure is over I'll change it...but I don't think so. I don't see any huge advantage in taking the form of an outsider so long as you don't get any of its non-natural abilities...