Using polymorph for a huge boost in AC

[Alariel]

Oh, I don't consider Polymorph broken either. The only reason I put quotes around it is to at least acknowledge that others may consider it broken. It's not really for me to tell them one way or the other since there are so many different playing styles.

In my group's campaigns, polymorphing doesn't come up that often. If the party expects to have to deal with much more difficult opponents, then they might have it cast on them in preparation, but we usually find more interesting ways to get around that. I agree with the individual who said that it can be annoying if everyone with a 7th level arcane caster had it used for their benefit. I can definitely see where the DM would begin to roll his/her eyes.

Though, when the party sorceror turned the dwarven fighter into a fire giant, and the minotaur monk into a storm giant, I did have a moment of eyebrow-twitching. =)

 

[IceBear]

What if Polymorph Other had an XP cost to cast? Would that help?

IceBear

 

[James McMurray]

It is in the Tome and Blood errattaed version.

 

[Uller]

What if Polymorph Other had an XP cost to cast? Would that help?

IceBear

That's a good idea! That would sort of balance it with the other 4th level spells. One thing that unbalances PO with other fourth level arcane spells is that it is really only one of two insta-kill spells. The other (Phantamal Killer) allows _two_ saves and doesn't have other uses like PO.

That doesn't solve PS, though.

 

[Uller]

It is in the Tome and Blood errattaed version.

So this begs the question: Which is "official"? The SRD lists the PHB version. The errata and rules clarifications docs don't mention that you can't change into an outsider. Nor do they mention that the -2 penalty only applies to PO. They also don't mention that PS can only be used to change forms once...

I don't have T&B. One of my players does and we agreed to use it, but if we do, I suppose we should use it completely and totally...I don't know though...

 

[thallone]

So's the stuff the wizard who tried to turn himself into a Formian is smoking.

As DM , I'd end the poly into Formorian in a much more tactful way. I'd continue to allow polying to an outsider, then have the character get Banished in an upcoming adventure. That would make for Quite the adventure.

 

[James McMurray]

The Tome and Blood version specifies that it is the official erratted version. Of course, if you don't have TnB, that makes it hard to use it. I think it is also on Wizards' website.

 

[IceBear]

That doesn't solve PS, though.

But PS has a duration that prevents you from wandering around all the time as a troll.

IceBear

 

[dcollins]

I haven't seen polymorphing used in my games, so I don't have first-hand evidence -- however, reading what I see online, I'm totally ready to believe that the spell is broken.

I can't think of another spell that was more noticably changed in 3rd Ed. compared to previous editions (raise dead is a close second, for similar reasons). I would guess that this change (and lack of a history of playbalancing) is what caused the need for all those errata'd versions after the fact.

If you're looking for options on balancing the spell, I'd recommend the spells as per AD&D:

Polymorph Self
- Caster can change form throughout duration.
- Caster gains creature's shape and movement, but no other abilities whatsoever (attack, magic, etc.)
- No other drawbacks.

Polymorph Other
- On polymorphing, a percentage chance to immediately die (approximately Constitution check, DC 7).
- A good percentage chance to permanently lose their mind and take on the mental and personality standard for the monster (100% -5% per Int +/-5% per difference in HD... maybe convert to Int check DC 10 +/-1 per HD change).
- Recipient gains all of the creature's abilities in their entirety.
- On dispelling of polymorph, an identical percentage chance to die as at the start (Con DC 7).

In AD&D, polymorph other was mostly just a spell to take enemies out of a fight. The removal of all those downsides, I think, may have caused the spell to be unbalanced in the current rules.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

And? What fighter-tank-type wouldn't want a permanent increase in str, con and natural armor? Plus reach and other hack 'n slash goodness.

My Bladesinger would never agree on being polymorphed into something ugly only because it would increase his STR or anything. And I think many PC's think the same way!