Using polymorph for a huge boost in AC

[Kae'Yoss]

So broken it ain't. I guess what really strikes me as odd is that natural armor and armor bonuses stack. It would be like wearing +5 leather armor under +5 full plate and claiming that give you a +20 armor bonus to AC...

A leather armor is no natural armor. Natural means usually thick skin - all over your body, while an armor only covers parts of your body (and has weak places where you could get your sword between). So if you get by that armor, you'd still have to pierce the thick hide of that critter!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

If you can polymorph into some strong beast and just rush through the adventure, there's something wrong with your DM: first, he should set the encounters according to your power: if you suddenly have a much higher attack bonus, damage bonus and AC, your enemies should be better than the ones you would battle without. Also, there's also ways to get around AC! And, of course, the enemy can also use the spell. So their problems won't just go away, they'd only change!

 

[Uller]

If you can polymorph into some strong beast and just rush through the adventure, there's something wrong with your DM: first, he should set the encounters according to your power: if you suddenly have a much higher attack bonus, damage bonus and AC, your enemies should be better than the ones you would battle without. Also, there's also ways to get around AC! And, of course, the enemy can also use the spell. So their problems won't just go away, they'd only change!

I guess you didn't read all of the thread...I said that this is the case...the polymorphing PC is not exactly "running all over" my adventure and was nearly killed twice. I certainly play my bad guys to be smart enough to utilize tactics to get around absurdly high ACs (spells, grapple, dispel magic, etc). Which is why I've said that I don't think its broken.

However...just increasing the strength of encounters to accomodate an ability of one or two PCs is not a solution to game balance. You end up making things too tough for the other PCs resulting in them being killed or being rendered ineffective. If I boost the AC and attack bonuses of the encounters so that they can beat the polymorphed character in melee, they suddenly become too tough for everyone else to fight...That would be bad...

Anyway...see the latest installment of my Story Hour to see what I mean...Dainis Mor is the PC in question. She certainly isn't running all over the adventure, although with a single critical hit, she nearly killed a Kyton but that had little to do with polymorph (although it did make her crit more damaging). Other than that she didn't do too much.

 

[Bastoche]

My Bladesinger would never agree on being polymorphed into something ugly only because it would increase his STR or anything. And I think many PC's think the same way!

Think again.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Simple solution

In my campaign the solution is very simple. If a fighter wants to turn into a troll, that's fine but his equipment does not get to go along for the ride. All gear gets subsumed into the new form unless the new form is human (not merely humanoid). At the very least the gear does not get altered to fit the new form, so even if the human fighter became an elf his armor would no longer fit. I beleive this will solve most problems with this spell.

The example in the first post with the myrmarch cant happen due to it being an outsider anyhoo, as i beleive has already been posted. Just remember, 4th level polymorph spells are limited and should be treated that way.

 

[Uller]

Re: Simple solution

The example in the first post with the myrmarch cant happen due to it being an outsider anyhoo, as i beleive has already been posted. Just remember, 4th level polymorph spells are limited and should be treated that way. I dont think the rules need to be altered from the way they are printed.

But you just said that in your campaign, equipment doesn't change to fit the new form...that's a change from the rules as printed is it not?

Not that that isn't a good solution...Maybe make a 5th or 6th level spell called Greater Polymorph that acts as the current T&B version (allowing equipment to continue to function). That would put the spell more in line with the

Changing into a myrmarch isn't really the issue (although after this adventure I will use that rule...but I'm not going to change mid stream).

 

[Mortaneus]

Bah, puny polymorph magic!

I use shapechange to turn into a Tarrasque! And since all of its powers (except the fear aura) are exceptional, I now have 40 regen, shed magic missles like raindrops, can devour my enemies whole with my keen bite, and can't die short of a wish!

 

[Otterscrubber]

Right you are, edit made.

 

[ForceUser]

In the weekly game I play in the psi-warrior's whole shtick is polymorph self into big ugly nasty thing and rip foes apart. Our DM has ruled that he cannot polymorph into anything he hasn't seen with his own eyes, but since he's now 14th level, he's seen plenty. His current favorite form is stone giant, not for the AC bonuses but the Str enhancement. He's not too worried about taking damage since he's got claws of the vampire...

IIRC, his buff routine includes polymorphing to stone giant, maximized animal affinity x 3 (Str, Con, Dex), claws of the vampire, and expansion, and he's usually buffed by the druid with greater magic fang. A larger-than-normal stone giant dual-wielding vampiric claws. Scary. He is eagerly awaiting an upcoming conflict with...fire giants.

This character is a monster. He regularly dishes out upwards of eighty points of damage per round on a (hasted) full attack, and he's topped one hundred in a single (hasted) full attack more than once. Add to that such abilities as displacement and dimension door, and, well, our cleric's player likes to complain about how psionic characters are broken The two psionic player characters in our campaign ARE probably the two most powerful in the group, however.

 

[Iku Rex]

My Bladesinger would never agree on being polymorphed into something ugly only because it would increase his STR or anything. And I think many PC's think the same way!

Yeah!

No real roleplayer would play a character that cares more about staying alive than looking pretty!