Using polymorph for a huge boost in AC

[IceBear]

Ok, but I still see a constrict attack as natural - that's what hong meant by a constrictor using magic to kill something, he was being sarcastic. Many people feel that if an attack mimics something that a present day animal can do (without causing you to break bits off your body - like poison) then it should be a natural ability - constriction, pouncing, raking, etc.

Anyway, whether or not you allow someone to constrict or not isn't the reason these spells need tuning, it's the natual AC, abilitiy modifiers and duration.

I think I'll lower the duration of PS to something similar to 2nd Edition (but allow you to switch forms multiple times) and use a similar system to 2nd Edition PO with regards to death and losing your mind. That should be enough to prevent the entire party walking around as Trolls all the time. As it stands now, I think the entire world would become Trolls as it's so advantageous over being a human

IceBear

 

[IceBear]

Improved grab.
Constrict.
Low-light vision.
Camouflage.
Pounce.
Rake.
Scent.

All of these are listed as Ex abilities. Regardless of what the PHB says, nothing else in the core rules makes any mention of "natural" abilities -- everything in the MM is listed as Ex, Su or Sp, for example. I think we can assume that if the designers intended for "natural" to be a distinct category like Ex, Su or Sp, they would at least have mentioned it somewhere other than a couple of obscure PHB quotes, yes?

Basically, it seems that that "natural" is an orphan, which got forgotten during the design process.

Exactly - just like the term "Shield Bonus".

IceBear

 

[hong]

Exactly - just like the term "Shield Bonus".

IceBear

Heh. I wish they _had_ kept "shield" as a separate category to "armor". It would be much simpler than the current situation, where some armor bonuses stack but not all of them. Not quite as true to how 2E did things, but them's the breaks....

 

[IceBear]

Oh, no argument from me on that hong

Just wanted to provide a precendent that there are other terms mentioned in the glossary that didn't seem to make it into the final product.

IceBear

 

[nharwell]

Polymorph house rules

It seems like this comes up about once each month, on average -- someone realizes how screwy the polymorph spells are, and a short discussion ensues. Well, to keep to the pattern, here's a link to my re-writes of the polymorph spells (along with my reasoning).

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=1194

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Think again.

OK! Did that. same result. There are enough players who wouldn't like to turn their character into an ugly thing.

As an elf whether he wants to be stronger, but he'd look like an umber hulk. You'd get no answer, unless you count him spitting before your feet as one.

Ask a dwarf if he wants to be even better in a fight. The catch is that he's got to look like a troll.

And that's when you hear a "swish" and feel a dwarven war-axe making you fall on your knees (by removing any part of the legs below your knees, that is).

Enough other fighters are not barking mad enough to take that.

It may be OK for some warrior types to endure it for a short time, but once they're back in town and get near the ladies...... great strength isn't worth it if the price is to damn high!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Yeah!

No real roleplayer would play a character that cares more about staying alive than looking pretty!

Well, he manages to do both at the same time. But that's probably because he's an elf and not one of that meek humans. Anyway, he can get his AC to around 40 and deal over 100 points of damage, and all without turning into an abomination...

 

[Metalsmith]

How is roleplaying the reactions of NPCs appropriately a house rule? Explain that to me.

Roleplaying the reactions of NPC's is not a house rule.

The House Rule I was refering to was posed by Pielorinho. He said if the fighter kept polymorphing into a troll he would penalize the fighter by giving him green skin and wierd limbs and other secondary characteristics of Trolls even when he changed back in his original form.

Metalsmith

 

[IceBear]

Ah...sorry then, you didn't have the complete quote in your post and I thought it was someone else that suggested that. My bad.

IceBear

 

[Bastoche]

OK! Did that. same result. There are enough players who wouldn't like to turn their character into an ugly thing.

As an elf whether he wants to be stronger, but he'd look like an umber hulk. You'd get no answer, unless you count him spitting before your feet as one.

Ask a dwarf if he wants to be even better in a fight. The catch is that he's got to look like a troll.

And that's when you hear a "swish" and feel a dwarven war-axe making you fall on your knees (by removing any part of the legs below your knees, that is).

Enough other fighters are not barking mad enough to take that.

It may be OK for some warrior types to endure it for a short time, but once they're back in town and get near the ladies...... great strength isn't worth it if the price is to damn high!

Roleplay is never a good balancing point of view.

For one very very very very very very particular case (well in fact for your character) that reasonning works. But what about an half-orc wizard ? He's already ugly. turning into a troll surely ain't worst.

In any case, roleplaying won't balance the polymorph spell. That's what I wanted you to think again...

And I think many PC's think the same way!

That's what you should think again. I don't agree with you. I don't think that most player care about the comeliness of their character. Why should they ? Since there is no more comeliness scores in 3E and that beauty is simply a role-playing thing, are you saying that each and every PC are (or should be) pretty ? Think again my friend...