Using Skills Untrained

[DungeonmasterCal]

I'm proposing a house rule to my group where a PC can attempt to use a skill untrained if the situation calls for it.

The SRD says:

Untrained Skill Checks
Generally, if your character attempts to use a skill he or she does not possess, you make a skill check as normal. The skill modifier doesn’t have a skill rank added in because the character has no ranks in the skill. Any other applicable modifiers, such as the modifier for the skill’s key ability, are applied to the check.

Many skills can be used only by someone who is trained in them.

An example of this would be:

OPEN LOCK (DEX; TRAINED ONLY)
Attempting an Open Lock check without a set of thieves’ tools imposes a –2 circumstance penalty on the check, even if a simple tool is employed. If you use masterwork thieves’ tools, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on the check.

(snip)

Untrained: You cannot pick locks untrained, but you might successfully force them open.

What I'm proposing is you can try a skill untrained, but at a -10 to your check. This might simulate someone just getting lucky on a check. Has anyone else tried something like this?

 

[DanMcS]

What I'm proposing is you can try a skill untrained, but at a -10 to your check. This might simulate someone just getting lucky on a check. Has anyone else tried something like this?

Never tried it, but I kinda like it. A good roll and a high stat can get you past something relatively easy, like jimmying open a cheap door with a butter knife.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I guess taking it further, would taking 10 or 20 be allowed on an untrained check using -10 as a penalty?

 

[velm]

I find the -10 to be interesting. I would have to go against the take 10 or take 20. If you don't know it, you don't know it. You can sit there all day long and not get any better. I think the take 10, take 20 if trying to say that if you know your lockpick skill, you can sit there and think about what type of tumbler in is in there, take your time and get it just right.

(using open lock as an example)

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Makes good sense. Thanks for all the feedback.

I was also thinking about the Heal skill, and how the rules say it can be used untrained. Honestly, would you want some yahoo trying to get an arrowhead out of your leg, or someone trained in such an endeavor?

 

[velm]

probably not. I also use a fumble system for skills, actually some of my players started it. When one of them rolled a one on heal, it was kinda funny, they were like "Oh, man, you just messed him up! How much damage did he do?" I was a little taken back, so I rolled a d6, and divided by 2. It has stuck since then.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I was seriously thinking of houseruling that Heal had to be a "trained" skill, and something similar would happen if someone untrained blows the roll. When I get my DM hat off the rack and start running again, my players may be in for quite a few surprises, rules-wise.

 

[DreamChaser]

Makes good sense. Thanks for all the feedback.

I was also thinking about the Heal skill, and how the rules say it can be used untrained. Honestly, would you want some yahoo trying to get an arrowhead out of your leg, or someone trained in such an endeavor?

If there was no one around who was trained, I would just want the arrow out of my leg.

Anyone can attempt first aid but they might screw it up.

I tend to reduce the results for any skill used untrained. You can do it but it is hard and you don't do as well. Kinda like the Rope Use skill.

DC

 

[velm]

As far as the Heal skill goes, I use a throw back to the days of 2nd ed (EECK!) and took Herbalism, I know it is listed as a profession. If you take them both, put 5 ranks in heal and at least one in herbalism, you can 'heal', dam for 1d3 for a DC of 15, in addition to what heal says in its description.
It might not seem much, but it can come in really handy at low lvls. I put a restriction on it saying on how it can only be done to a person once, just had to add that. I also put natural 'heal' packs in the games sometimes at low lvl for the PCs. They were packs made by a Herbalist, that could do 1d4 heal. They had the same restiction on them as well, only one per patient and a time limit, so no hoarding them for weeks or months.
Also, once while fooling around as a player many moons ago, I was playing a wizard who was specializing in the 'dark arts'. I had taken Brewing, Herbalism, and one other skill, I can't remember what it was (I am sure if I flipped thru my players handbook I would see it and remember). I had just about convinced him that with those three skills that I should be able to make natural poisons. We had agreed upon certain ones, then the adv ended. He was not a totally evil person, just 'misunderstood.'