D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

[Swarmkeeper]

Oh no... @iserith has been clear, if I were at his table and I said "I want to use my theives tools to pick the lock" that would not be enough I need to describe it... or the better example "I search the desk" would lead to "How do you search the desk?"
I can't pick a lock, I in real world am for sure not trained in perception or investigation (and I'm not betting on a high INT or WIS)

So you don’t understand what we mean by “reasonably specific”. Got it.

 

[HammerMan]

Not correct on the thieves' tools. That is a sufficient statement of goal and approach to adjudicate.

okay, how about "I search the desk"? and why is it okay to just say "use theives tools pick lock" when every other tool or skill you say you need to know what they are doing? what is your line, what skill tools gets the treatment?

 

[iserith]

okay, how about "I search the desk"? and why is it okay to just say "use theives tools pick lock" when every other tool or skill you say you need to know what they are doing? what is your line, what skill tools gets the treatment?

The line is not having to assume what it is your character is doing. Reasonably. Specific. What does "I search the desk" mean? What is the character actually doing in the game world? Is this a cursory visual search? Are you pulling out all the drawers and dumping out their contents? Are you doing this subtly or you don't care about making noise? If I'm watching TV, what does this look like on the screen?

 

[HammerMan]

So you don’t understand what we mean by “reasonably specific”. Got it.

okay explain it to me...

in my games you can say
I use intimidate on the orc
I threaten the orc
I tell the orc if he doesn't run I will do horrible things to him

all 3 of those are the same to me.

in my games you can say
I use investigation to check the desk
I look at the desk carefully going through it
I use my dagger to slide open the draw and riffle through the papers, is there anything important in the desk?

 

[Swarmkeeper]

okay explain it to me...

in my games you can say
I use intimidate on the orc
I threaten the orc
I tell the orc if he doesn't run I will do horrible things to him

all 3 of those are the same to me.

in my games you can say
I use investigation to check the desk
I look at the desk carefully going through it
I use my dagger to slide open the draw and riffle through the papers, is there anything important in the desk?

@iserith said it succinctly above.

 

[Nefermandias]

okay explain it to me...

in my games you can say
I use intimidate on the orc
I threaten the orc
I tell the orc if he doesn't run I will do horrible things to him

all 3 of those are the same to me.

in my games you can say
I use investigation to check the desk
I look at the desk carefully going through it
I use my dagger to slide open the draw and riffle through the papers, is there anything important in the desk?

My only gripe with "I use investigation to check the desk" is that the Dungeon Master should be the one calling for ability checks.

 

[HammerMan]

@iserith said it succinctly above.

he wants the player to describe the scene... the problem is if the player isn't good at describe X action then his character sucks at it even if he is better...

I want you guys reaction to this:

Example (not exactly 100% real but based on my least fav 3e game)
2 players, both want to search a foot locker, me and jon. I am new to the group, Jon has played with this DM for 5+ years.
My character has max ranks in search, and a high score to go with it. (I wanted to be a perceptive rogue)
Jon's character had 0 ranks in search and a lower stat then me.

we have reason to believe this foot locker has hidden things in it (one a package we are looking for, the other maybe something else.

I say I want to check out the foot locker. DM asks me to describe how. I tell DM 'I don't know, I guess I open it look for stuff in it or on it, you know a general search pick stuff up go through it' DM has me roll, I roll high and get in the 20s and find nothing.

Jon says "let my character look, I pick up the foot locker dump everything out, go through it with my axe handle first, then my hands, I turn out all the pockest and look for hidden stitches then I look inside the empty foot locker and use my axe to measure outside and inside depth, if there is a difference of more then a small amount I start tapping the inside" DM doesn't have him roll, just tells him he finds the hidden package in the pocket of the pants and the hidden compartment in the foot locker.

DM then tells us it was a DC 12 to find (so I needed like a 3 or 4 to hit it) but we needed to look for stitches and hidden compartments...

with sociol it is worse... yeah so shy kids can't play cha bards I guess...

 

[HammerMan]

My only gripe with "I use investigation to check the desk" is that the Dungeon Master should be the one calling for ability checks.

yes by raw, but I think this still communicates intent and why they think they should be able to do it and as such is ruleable.

 

[iserith]

he wants the player to describe the scene... the problem is if the player isn't good at describe X action then his character sucks at it even if he is better...

I want you guys reaction to this:

Example (not exactly 100% real but based on my least fav 3e game)
2 players, both want to search a foot locker, me and jon. I am new to the group, Jon has played with this DM for 5+ years.
My character has max ranks in search, and a high score to go with it. (I wanted to be a perceptive rogue)
Jon's character had 0 ranks in search and a lower stat then me.

we have reason to believe this foot locker has hidden things in it (one a package we are looking for, the other maybe something else.

I say I want to check out the foot locker. DM asks me to describe how. I tell DM 'I don't know, I guess I open it look for stuff in it or on it, you know a general search pick stuff up go through it' DM has me roll, I roll high and get in the 20s and find nothing.

Jon says "let my character look, I pick up the foot locker dump everything out, go through it with my axe handle first, then my hands, I turn out all the pockest and look for hidden stitches then I look inside the empty foot locker and use my axe to measure outside and inside depth, if there is a difference of more then a small amount I start tapping the inside" DM doesn't have him roll, just tells him he finds the hidden package in the pocket of the pants and the hidden compartment in the foot locker.

DM then tells us it was a DC 12 to find (so I needed like a 3 or 4 to hit it) but we needed to look for stitches and hidden compartments...

with sociol it is worse... yeah so shy kids can't play cha bards I guess...

D&D 3e may have a different standard for players in this regard. I played it for 8 years, but I don't recall what that standard may have been.

 

[HammerMan]

D&D 3e may have a different standard for players in this regard. I played it for 8 years, but I don't recall what that standard may have been.

What difference does it make if I play 5e D&D or Vampire the Masquerade? If I have a skill on my sheet that says my character is good at X, why do I the player have to be good at describing X to be able to do it... and why should a player with out the skill on the sheet but can describe it better do it better since OUT OF GAME they did it better?