D&D 5E Using social skills on other PCs

[HammerMan]

As stated already, your "proof and documentation" ignores fundamental aspects of the rules, particularly around how ability checks are resolved.

only if you ignore what everyone who disagrees with you has to say

Where an attempt is being made to persuade, deceive, or intimidate a player character, the outcome cannot be uncertain because the player decides what the character does.

nobody and I mean nobody has taken that ability from the player.

If there's no uncertainty, there can be no ability check.

there are times there is uncertainty, you choose to rush past this with DM fiat, and that is fine. I can even understand how you read that. I just don't understand how you can read "THE ORC HAS +2 Intimidate, AND THAT MEAN THEY CAN BE ANYWHERE FROM LAUGHABUL TO DOWN RIGHT SCARY" and think that there is no uncertainty in any reading of it...

yes in game there is a scale he could roll a 1 (3 intimidate) he could roll a 20 (22 intimidate) I wonder if in your games you narrate that whole range?

 

[HammerMan]

=What you're doing is rolling a die to color or flavor your description and/or to communicate to the player with mechanics instead of or in addition to words.

I pulled this out to make it its' own response. Yes, that number is part of my description it is how skillful they are at what they are doing. it is no more or less a viable reading of the rules then yours.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I pulled this out to make it its' own response. Yes, that number is part of my description it is how skillful they are at what they are doing. it is no more or less a viable reading of the rules then yours.

So we can learn from you, please cite the 5e rule that you are interpreting as such:
use the number on the ability check roll to determine HOW intimidating/persuasive/deceitful/insightful/etc an NPC is

 

[HammerMan]

So we can learn from you, please cite the 5e rule that you are interpreting as such:
use the number on the ability check roll to determine HOW intimidating/persuasive/deceitful/insightful/etc an NPC is

not from the book but from D&D beyond I think it is an exact reprint but in case I am pointing that out

An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.

Using Ability Scores

D&D Beyond - Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition Tools, Rules, Races, Classes, Items, Spells, Monsters, and More

www.dndbeyond.com

To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success--the creature overcomes the challenge at hand. Otherwise, it's a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the DM.

 

[Bill Zebub]

So we can learn from you, please cite the 5e rule that you are interpreting as such:
use the number on the ability check roll to determine HOW intimidating/persuasive/deceitful/insightful/etc an NPC is

To quote Daffy Duck, “How fiendishly clever.”

 

[HammerMan]

Skills​

Each ability covers a broad range of capabilities, including skills that a character or a monster can be proficient in. A skill represents a specific aspect of an ability score, and an individual's proficiency in a skill demonstrates a focus on that aspect. (A character's starting skill proficiencies are determined at character creation, and a monster's skill proficiencies appear in the monster's stat block.)

For example, a Dexterity check might reflect a character's attempt to pull off an acrobatic stunt, to palm an object, or to stay hidden. Each of these aspects of Dexterity has an associated skill: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth, respectively. So a character who has proficiency in the Stealth skill is particularly good at Dexterity checks related to sneaking and hiding.

The skills related to each ability score are shown in the following list. (No skills are related to Constitution.) See an ability's description in the later sections of this section for examples of how to use a skill associated with an ability.

 

[Charlaquin]

not from the book but from D&D beyond I think it is an exact reprint but in case I am pointing that out

An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.

Using Ability Scores

D&D Beyond - Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition Tools, Rules, Races, Classes, Items, Spells, Monsters, and More

www.dndbeyond.com

To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. **If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success--the creature overcomes the challenge at hand. Otherwise, it's a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the DM.

Right, so what’s being described here is the use of an ability check to resolve the uncertainty between two binary possibility states that can result from an action: success, or failure (which can either result in no progress, or progress combined with a setback determined by the DM), by comparing the result to a single target number. What does not seem to be described here is using the granular total to inform the DM’s description of how well the creature executed the task. That’s a thing many DMs choose to do, and that’s fine, but the text you’re quoting here does not seem to contain instructions to do so (aka “support” for that technique).

 

[Maxperson]

You can't have it both ways. You can't say they're inconsistent and that they're also check to make sure they're not inconsistent.

I'm not. I'm saying that they consistently do not have a skill that they would have if the skill was intended to be used on PCs. The very, very few monsters that have the skill are exceptional and have the skill for use against PCs and/or to help the DM roleplay them.

 

[Mordhau]

I'm not. I'm saying that they consistently do not have a skill that they would have if the skill was intended to be used on PCs. The very, very few monsters that have the skill are exceptional and have the skill for use against PCs and/or to help the DM roleplay them.

I’m going to read through the Monster Manual myself, but another poster flatly contradicted you about how many monsters have these skills.

At least one of you must be wrong.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

not from the book but from D&D beyond I think it is an exact reprint but in case I am pointing that out

An ability check tests a character's or monster's innate talent and training in an effort to overcome a challenge. The DM calls for an ability check when a character or monster attempts an action (other than an attack) that has a chance of failure. When the outcome is uncertain, the dice determine the results.

Using Ability Scores

D&D Beyond - Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition Tools, Rules, Races, Classes, Items, Spells, Monsters, and More

www.dndbeyond.com

To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success--the creature overcomes the challenge at hand. Otherwise, it's a failure, which means the character or monster makes no progress toward the objective or makes progress combined with a setback determined by the DM.

And where, in the rules you are quoting, does it instruct us that the result of an ability check indicates the degree to which an NPC is intimidating/persuasive/deceitful/insightful`? I mean, beyond the plain reading that tells us the ability check determines whether a task is success or failure.