Anabstercorian
First Post
Maybe the problem is you're rounding off the CR twice instead of once - When you're doing calculations with a CR, keep the fractions.
D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)
- Thread starter Upper_Krust
- Start date
Matrix Sorcica
Hero
Anabstercorian said:
Hmm... I don't think so.
Troll CR 7.4.
9 lvls of pc wealth + 1.8 CR
Total 9.2 CR
9.2 * 0.85 (silver rule) = 7.82 rounded to CR 7.
Troll = ECL 7.
I haven't playtested yet, but I would think that a Troll with PC equipment beats a 7th lvl human fighter anytime.
- Sorcica
p.1 How do factors work: You still haven't resolved the problem of rounding... How should I round 3.9? Ah... Now I see the example... The text should be: else round it to the lower and nearest value of the table (ok... my english is very poor).
The rounding of the Cat is wrong. It should be rounded to -1.25.
p.2 Celestial Template: you should use a 20 HD creature as an example, because you used 20 HD creatures for the other examples.
Lycanthrope: what is the Total CR? It's clearly the CR of the Animal Form + something, but the something varies (it is 1.63 or 2.63)
p. 3 What does Size includes?
You made a single row for Intelligent and non-int. constructs, but two rows for Undeads and it's not very clear what are the differences between Int. Constructs and non intelligent ones (probably Intelligence 0 and no natural healing)
You forgot Intelligent vermins in the table.
p.5 Speed: is this doubling +0.2, tripling +0.4 etc? or is it x2 = 0.2, x4 = 0.4, x8 =0.6... (you should add the p. 6 note for range)
Full Attack: you are summing apples with oranges and totalling apples, but you want bananas! (you sum average damage, iterative damage (without putting the /2 but with only an *) and you obtain a damage that then you'll multiply for 0.1. You should have multiplied at each passage by 0.1/0.05 to obtain a CR modifier.
Ability Score Damage/Drain: the difference is that with the Drain the creature recovers HP?
--- Bye
The rounding of the Cat is wrong. It should be rounded to -1.25.
p.2 Celestial Template: you should use a 20 HD creature as an example, because you used 20 HD creatures for the other examples.
Lycanthrope: what is the Total CR? It's clearly the CR of the Animal Form + something, but the something varies (it is 1.63 or 2.63)
p. 3 What does Size includes?
You made a single row for Intelligent and non-int. constructs, but two rows for Undeads and it's not very clear what are the differences between Int. Constructs and non intelligent ones (probably Intelligence 0 and no natural healing)
You forgot Intelligent vermins in the table.
p.5 Speed: is this doubling +0.2, tripling +0.4 etc? or is it x2 = 0.2, x4 = 0.4, x8 =0.6... (you should add the p. 6 note for range)
Full Attack: you are summing apples with oranges and totalling apples, but you want bananas! (you sum average damage, iterative damage (without putting the /2 but with only an *) and you obtain a damage that then you'll multiply for 0.1. You should have multiplied at each passage by 0.1/0.05 to obtain a CR modifier.
Ability Score Damage/Drain: the difference is that with the Drain the creature recovers HP?
--- Bye
Upper_Krust
Legend
Response to ECL and Golden Rule
Hi all!
The reason I don't advocate using the Golden Rule with PCs is simple. If you do you would have to adjust the ECL at every level increase.
eg. If you take a 1st-level Barbarian Troll. Its HD and Levels give it +4.1, meaning that everything above ECL 8.2 would be halved. But as you keep going up levels that bar is going to raise. By 5th-level the Troll Barbarian would have HD and Levels totalling 7.3 so only the ECL above 14.3 would be halved (if there was any by that point).
So the Troll ECL may well be 7 at 1st-level, but probably by 3rd or 4th-level it will be ECL 8.
So I think its better to not use the Golden Rule for PCs.
Hi all!
The reason I don't advocate using the Golden Rule with PCs is simple. If you do you would have to adjust the ECL at every level increase.
eg. If you take a 1st-level Barbarian Troll. Its HD and Levels give it +4.1, meaning that everything above ECL 8.2 would be halved. But as you keep going up levels that bar is going to raise. By 5th-level the Troll Barbarian would have HD and Levels totalling 7.3 so only the ECL above 14.3 would be halved (if there was any by that point).
So the Troll ECL may well be 7 at 1st-level, but probably by 3rd or 4th-level it will be ECL 8.
So I think its better to not use the Golden Rule for PCs.
Matrix Sorcica
Hero
Upper_Krust said:Hi all!
The reason I don't advocate using the Golden Rule with PCs is simple. If you do you would have to adjust the ECL at every level increase.
eg. If you take a 1st-level Barbarian Troll. Its HD and Levels give it +4.1, meaning that everything above ECL 8.2 would be halved. But as you keep going up levels that bar is going to raise. By 5th-level the Troll Barbarian would have HD and Levels totalling 7.3 so only the ECL above 14.3 would be halved (if there was any by that point).
So the Troll ECL may well be 7 at 1st-level, but probably by 3rd or 4th-level it will be ECL 8.
So I think its better to not use the Golden Rule for PCs.
But I'm not using the Golden Rule on the Troll.
I'm using the silver rule. So.....?
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi xanatos mate!
(and thanks for the email)
Thats okay mate! I'm just glad you get it now.
Okay, thanks I'll double check that - its plausible that a few of the revised CRs are off.
Okay.
It tells you what the CR is for each lycanthrope...?
Werebear +5.23
Wereboar +2.63
Wererat +2.43
etc.
Attack Bonuses/Penalties; Armor Class Bonuses/Penalties; Movement; Reach; Space; Ability Scores.
Well there are lots of Intelligent Undead in the Monster Manual; but there are very few Intelligent Constructs; Oozes; Vermin or Plants.
Exactly.
DOH!
Always with D&D a double double is a triple (unless the rules state otherwise)
You mean in each example I should have outlined all the attacks and all the iterative attacks seperately and then totalled them?
No, the difference is that its permanent.
(and thanks for the email)
xanatos said:
Thats okay mate! I'm just glad you get it now.
xanatos said:
Okay, thanks I'll double check that - its plausible that a few of the revised CRs are off.
xanatos said:
Okay.
xanatos said:
It tells you what the CR is for each lycanthrope...?
Werebear +5.23
Wereboar +2.63
Wererat +2.43
etc.
xanatos said:
Attack Bonuses/Penalties; Armor Class Bonuses/Penalties; Movement; Reach; Space; Ability Scores.
xanatos said:
Well there are lots of Intelligent Undead in the Monster Manual; but there are very few Intelligent Constructs; Oozes; Vermin or Plants.
xanatos said:
Exactly.
xanatos said:
DOH!
xanatos said:
Always with D&D a double double is a triple (unless the rules state otherwise)
xanatos said:
You mean in each example I should have outlined all the attacks and all the iterative attacks seperately and then totalled them?
xanatos said:
No, the difference is that its permanent.
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hiya mate!
Okay, then how are you still getting ECL 7?
8.2 (Troll) + 1.6 (8th-level PC Equipment) = 9.8 x0.85 = ECL 8.33
Sorcica said:
Okay, then how are you still getting ECL 7?
8.2 (Troll) + 1.6 (8th-level PC Equipment) = 9.8 x0.85 = ECL 8.33
kreynolds
First Post
Sorcica said:
Hm. I'm applying the silver rule in a different order, which may be wrong...
1. Calculate monster CR
2. Apply silver rule
3. Multiply PC wealth (0.2) by new monster CR.
4. Total ECL
Basically, I'm applying the silver rule immediately after determining the monster's initial CR, _then_ I'm applying PC wealth. I wasn't originally, but something about doing it in this order makes sense. Is this not the correct order to do it in?
kreynolds
First Post
UK,
About the spell-like abilities section; It states that an Always Active spell-like ability is caster level x spell level x 0.005, but wouldn't you get more accurate CR modifiers if you took into account the duration of the original spell as well? Basically, I'm thinking that on average there will be a significant difference between an always active 1 hour/level spell-like ability and an always active 1 round/level spell-like ability.
Do you disagree? If so, why not take such a thing into account?
About the spell-like abilities section; It states that an Always Active spell-like ability is caster level x spell level x 0.005, but wouldn't you get more accurate CR modifiers if you took into account the duration of the original spell as well? Basically, I'm thinking that on average there will be a significant difference between an always active 1 hour/level spell-like ability and an always active 1 round/level spell-like ability.
Do you disagree? If so, why not take such a thing into account?
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