Vampire in play

[generalchaos34]

No, it's not. You should probably read the article I linked. The article is about playing a member of a stereotypically evil race, and how to convince people you're not one of those stereotypically evil individuals. It has nothing to do with being part of an evil party, and it has nothing to do with an "evil game". In fact, most of the article is spent giving you tips on how to survive playing a heroic character who happens to be from a monstrous race.

Its actually pretty good and quite funny,and they try to avoid the Drizzt card when possible =P. I especially love the idea that the PCs dont have a Monster Manul item in their party, so they may, or may not actually know if said monstrous creature/race is in fact, EVIL. As far as a vamps go, the PCs could only have heard legends and campfire stories, and those could be about evil nightstalkers or about cursed heroes, its up to you to decide that. Hell, the PCs may not even believe that Vampires exist and its only a legend. Besides, if a monster says "wait dont shoot!" theres a halfway decent chance they may listen, then you could use you know, your SKILLS to decide if they are lying to you about being evil.

Being mr.negative about "WotC is gonna crash and burn" isnt even close to the topic at hand, which is trying to get a vampire PC to fit into a group, and whether or not it is possible under certain circumstances. As far as i see it, you dont need a particularly dark group to have a vamp in your group. If anything, i see vamps as yet another group of odd and interesting characters, like a minotaur or a shardmind, or even a psion, all of which could possibly blow the mind of your average peasant.

 

[Argyle King]

vampires suck!

 

[Nyghthawk]

vampires suck!

Quite literally too!

I haven't got my copy of HoS yet, but you could probably pass a vampire off as a canabalistic rouge until he turns into a bat unless they are very open about their vamparism. If someone thinks the canibalistic thing is disgusting the vampire could say its a custom where they come from.
Another thing they could do is say that they are trying to find a cure for vampirism, which has already been mentioned but that is probably the best thing to do.
The guide to playing an evil race is probably helpful for a vampire, i've read it over and I like what it says about fitting in with a normal group.

 

[Klaus]

Somebody brought a Vampire character to yesterdays LFR game, and man is it awful in that context.

I'm not at all talking about the mechanics. I'm talking about the flavour.

First, we had the massive problem of "And why are we adventuring with a vampire and not just killing it on sight?" Its LFR so we just muttered and ignored the problem but it was definitely there.

But the main problem is that the character didn't feel like any vampire out of any fiction that I've ever read (note, I have NOT seen nor read the Eclipse books).

Some of the issues are arguably build issues. But only really a little.

The character was a 5th level character. He was supposed to be centuries old. But had, of course, absolutely nothing in game terms to show that. No knowledge of history (admittedly this is a class skill but that barely helps. If the player had cared to waste the points they could have made the character barely competent at history. Way worse than the Eladrin mage in the party, of course, but at least vaguely competent.

The character had no ability to smell blood (this actually came up on screen). No supernatural senses except for dark vision.

Strength was his dump stat so we have a physically weak vampire.

He has some thematic powers but he desperately needs far more flavourful powers. And unfortunately in D&D where just about EVERYBODY can do weird stuff like push and pull characters around thematic powers like Dark Beckoning become far less interesting

The only thing that made him at all seem like a Vampire was the fact that everybody hated him on sight .

I think that making the Vampire a class was a significant mistake. Heck, I'm not at all sure that making it a PC at all was a good decision. You just cannot create a balanced low level vampire that is going to remotely seem like a vampire.

If the player wants to be a centuries-old vampire, he has the burden of reflecting that concept through his build. Taking History as a trained skill is the least he should do. If the player doesn't do even that, the class is not at fault (it *does* offer History as a class skill). He could even go so far as to take the Skill Power feat and take the History skill power that allows the character to replace any knowledge check with a History check.

Re: Strength as a dump stat: a character with Str 8 and Dex 19 can look physically weak (like so many vampires in fiction and movies), but still punch an enemy with the force of a musclebound, hulking barbarian.

Re: Smell Blood: Perception is a class skill for the vampire. A ranger trained in Perception might describe it as a knowledge of tracking, while a vampire chalks it up to acute senses.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

If the player wants to be a centuries-old vampire, he has the burden of reflecting that concept through his build. Taking History as a trained skill is the least he should do. If the player doesn't do even that, the class is not at fault (it *does* offer History as a class skill). He could even go so far as to take the Skill Power feat and take the History skill power that allows the character to replace any knowledge check with a History check.

Re: Strength as a dump stat: a character with Str 8 and Dex 19 can look physically weak (like so many vampires in fiction and movies), but still punch an enemy with the force of a musclebound, hulking barbarian.

Re: Smell Blood: Perception is a class skill for the vampire. A ranger trained in Perception might describe it as a knowledge of tracking, while a vampire chalks it up to acute senses.

Right, which is EXACTLY why 4e calls the skill 'Perception' and not 'Listen' or 'Spot Hidden', etc.

I can't think of any reason why a weak vampire couldn't work either. Just because some vampire in some movie or book happens to be extraordinarily strong doesn't mean it has to be true for all of them. It could also be explained by say "I refrain from drinking my fill of human blood, therefor I am weak." etc.

Obviously there are going to be some people that have a problem coming up with a background/fluff that works well with their character, but this is not a vampire issue. At best you might complain WotC could give more ideas on that score, but actually they do a pretty good job.

 

[Incenjucar]

Flavor and fluff is definitely the least of the vampire's concerns. Many players and DMs have expressed difficulty using their imaginations to make things work over the years, such as the group that simply can't wrap their minds around martial dailies or encounter powers.

 

[generalchaos34]

Flavor and fluff is definitely the least of the vampire's concerns. Many players and DMs have expressed difficulty using their imaginations to make things work over the years, such as the group that simply can't wrap their minds around martial dailies or encounter powers.

I find that people who cant think outside the box are the ones who have trouble adapting play. This could be an undue legacy of video games (you do this or this, and NOTHING ELSE!!!!!). What it comes down to is concentrating less on what is written in the description and more on how you can perceive it. I think there was a great series of articles describing how martial at wills could "work" but for the life of me i dont remember where they are. I also think that people are trying to force the vampire concept from what they see in movies and such (sparkly, evil, etc) when there is a plethora of odd and extravagant ways to reskin your vampire. I love the idea of the cannibalistic rogue, hell, in a dark sun game your Halfling Vampire wouldnt even get noticed until he turns into a bat!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I find that people who cant think outside the box are the ones who have trouble adapting play. This could be an undue legacy of video games (you do this or this, and NOTHING ELSE!!!!!). What it comes down to is concentrating less on what is written in the description and more on how you can perceive it. I think there was a great series of articles describing how martial at wills could "work" but for the life of me i dont remember where they are. I also think that people are trying to force the vampire concept from what they see in movies and such (sparkly, evil, etc) when there is a plethora of odd and extravagant ways to reskin your vampire. I love the idea of the cannibalistic rogue, hell, in a dark sun game your Halfling Vampire wouldnt even get noticed until he turns into a bat!

lol, yeah, who knows? I think those people always existed.

I'm not sure why everyone is TOO torched about Vampire anyway. Most of its stuff is leveled powers. It can always be expanded. That would be the very simple way to just add more types of vampire that are covered. Every new power opens up a bunch of combinations of options. Other versions could also be alternate builds with different variations of class features. They can pretty much all use some fluffing of the draining blood stuff since they're all some sort of Vampire.

 

[Lostdwarf]

I think at least part of this was probably issues with the player, not the class. A "hundreds of years old" vampire is at minimum Paragon tier, possibly even Epic. A level 5 vampire has been around the block a few times, but he is just starting to get into his grove. By the time the same character is in early paragon many more of those classic vampire abilites would have appeared.

Also, not to type cast, but I have the bad feelling that the guy who shows up at a living campaign game with a Vampire in hand has a higher than average chance of being the kind of guy that in previous editions would be playing the chaotic neutral with evil tendencies rogue and "role playing" his way to total party destruction and group conflict. Some people just get off on this at some level. The best solution is to beat them with lengths of rebar. And I mean the player, not the character.

Also, while I respect the right of people to want to play this kind of stuff, it can present some serious RP issues. It really, really, has to be the right group. If you roll up on your standard DnD group with a Dwarven paladin of Moradin and a Cleric of Pelor and say "Hey Guys Im a undead creature of the night, want ot go get some fat xp in the dungeon?" things are going to go downhill in a hurry. Either it has to be a campaign that really is just nothing but dungeon busting and no story, or one set up where complex storytelling can overcome the more obvious confllicts that will arise.

 

[Incenjucar]

I wouldn't blame video games. It may be the result of particular aspects of one's personal background, or simply the nature of the person. Regardless of where it comes from, it's an issue that will continue to occur in the future. Hopefully something will be done to mitigate it a bit - the recent anti-hero article is a good example. More examples could be to have additional lists of reflavoring and story-building ideas. It is, frankly, a shame to feel that the game is limited by to the official text, so alternatives should be made visible for those who simply must follow authority so that the MECHANICS of a thing can be reshaped into new IDEAS that work better for the party. There are dozens of ways to re-imagine the vampire into something else - the only real thing that they're saddled with is being undead, but making sympathetic undead hardly takes any imagination. Plenty of room for Casper.