Vampire: The Requiem blurb in Previews

[reutbing0]

Thanks for the links reutbing0, I'd been wondering how long the books would be.

Well. as for pagecount Justin Achilli has indicated that they might be longer than indicated on the retailers sheets.

He said so on this RPG.net thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?threadid=123659&perpage=10&pagenumber=2

"I will all but promise that it's going to be bigger than 160 pages. Some kind of miracle may happen, but unless it does, its 160+.

Looks like Vampire is going to be bigger than its threatened 288, too, but I won't nigh-promise on that yet.

Regards,
Justin"

 

[Vindicator]

I just think it's funny that many people think (or want others to think) that most WW games are all about the PCs sitting around drinking a fine wine (or blood) from $800 glasses, raising eyebrows and smirking, but what I actually see and hear about are games that more closely resemble The Crow or Underworld.

LOL! Dude, you made my day with that one. Kudos!


Edit: Hope you don't mind, but I'd like to sig this...

 

[Mouseferatu]

On a selfish note, I hope you can get your other novels publish so I can read them as well.

From your mouth to God's--or Tor's, or Del Rey's, or Baen's--ear.

Seriously, thanks. I'm quite proud of the way Gehenna turned out. Though it wouldn't be fair of me to take all the credit--Philippe Boulle is one hell of an editor and developer, and the book wouldn't have been nearly as good without his guidance and input.

 

[Welverin]

Well. as for pagecount Justin Achilli has indicated that they might be longer than indicated on the retailers sheets.

More is good.

From your mouth to God's--or Tor's, or Del Rey's, or Baen's--ear.

Well the next time we talk, I'll pass it on.

Seriously, thanks. I'm quite proud of the way Gehenna turned out. Though it wouldn't be fair of me to take all the credit--Philippe Boulle is one hell of an editor and developer, and the book wouldn't have been nearly as good without his guidance and input.

Nice assist Phillipe!

Forgot it the first time, but my brother liked it as well.

 

[Graf]

One of the core things we wanted to do with the new books was to capture that feeling that the first adopters of Vampire got way back in '91 — that feeling of excitement and mystery, of picking up these books where you recognized some aspects of vampires but discovered there was so much more to explore and play with. A post-Gehenna/Apocalypse/Ascension setting would be too familiar. We wanted something fresh.

As someone who picked up the book when it first came out and had to wait a few years to find anyone who was willing to play the game I remember the feeling. You get it with most good games (or at least I do).

Dropping the metaplot is very good.

Now if they'd only kill off Forsaken Elves god-comes-back metaplot in S&S we'd be in business. :\

 

[frankthedm]

I like that the actual game rules are separate from the setting books. There were a lot of rules that could NOT be gotten rid of without destroying the werewolf & vampire stories.

If a GM wanted to ditch the Vampiric "kiss"[mortals are in a mild rapture when bitten by a vampire] and that vampires can close wounds they cause by licking them, whole chunks of their precious masquerade fall away and make the plot very hard to reconcile. Ditching the whole Umbra from werewolf [spirit world werewolves can travel trough] and making the wyrm more extra-dimensional changes so much of the story it renders the pre printed plot obsolete, making virtually every rulebook for WOD 20% to 70% worthless for the chronicle.

 

[Barastrondo]

But, the original games weren't replacing a current game. The Mage 2nd edition & revised editions didn't have a year gap from the previous Mage product. I just wish they'd (well, you'd had them more planned out/ ready to go when Gehenna (and the rest) ended it all.

It would have take contract labor from monkeys with typewriters to make the gap negligible — it's just flatly impossible for us to get entirely new rulebooks, complete with new systems, and complete with enough periods of in-house review to make sure we're going in the right direction, produced in the same time it takes to produce a supplement for an already-existing gameline that has a lot of writers already familiar with the material. If we'd started earlier on the new books, we would have had to free up our schedules by ending the old World of Darkness even sooner. We've been sweating blood trying to get everything good as well as timely — I doubt anyone picking up the books would really rather have had shoddier work more quickly available. Every extra month of work and review makes the games more solid, both in terms of the setting and of the rules work.

What we're doing is, as best as we can figure it, the optimal amount of time so that the Big Three games release as close to one another to keep excitement high, but far enough apart that there's sufficient time for serious quality control.

I have to disagree with that idea, for the simple matter of details are why I buy RPG products. I never use anything as written, but I need the basis, or it's pointless to get the stuff. I'm sure the new WoD will have some fine details, but without an evolving plot, there's less worth in me picking up the product.

To be honest, that probably puts you in the minority — that is to say, as someone who runs the games who finds the metaplot more useful than problematic.

To go all anecdotal, when I picked up Oriental Adventures and decided to try and see what was going on in the Rokugan setting, the timeline of "recent events" was exceptionally off-putting. I wasn't someone who had followed the metaplot through all the world events that happened as the result of TCG tournaments or the various pre-d20 releases — and considering the number of major setting changes that happened in that brief period of time, it marked the Rokugan setting as clearly not for me.

The trouble with an advancing metaplot is that although it's a lot of fun for the people who get in on the ground floor, it becomes successively harder to attract new gamers to your game with each passing year. There's just too much material for them to absorb, particularly if the rulebook is contradicted by the supplement that they just picked up the same day. Ongoing stories that showcase the world are a fine idea, but it's a lot easier to keep your setting consistent enough to be newbie-friendly if you limit those stories to the accompanying novels and other fiction. The actual supplements should add depth to the setting in a different fashion, gradually outlining more options and depth as time goes on without invalidating previous chunks.

Long-term viability, that's our Grail.

That being said, I haevn't run any WoD for a while since my players don't really like the system. I'll read WoD in the store, but I'm not expecting enough rules changes to get the group behind it.

That depends entirely on the group, obviously. The new system is pretty significantly different (moreso than the Trinity and Exalted engines were), but still clearly related — but if even being related is too much for your group, well, so it goes.

 

[Vocenoctum]

We've been sweating blood trying to get everything good as well as timely — I doubt anyone picking up the books would really rather have had shoddier work more quickly available. Every extra month of work and review makes the games more solid, both in terms of the setting and of the rules work.

What we're doing is, as best as we can figure it, the optimal amount of time so that the Big Three games release as close to one another to keep excitement high, but far enough apart that there's sufficient time for serious quality control.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure WW wants the books out there to get the money from them as soon as they can. I do think the books should have been done earlier, especially since the End Times stuff was pretty few books. While I'm sure the Big End Books took time, but the amount of workload WW normally carries in the lines (ala, continious books for Vampire, Mage, Werewolf, Hunter, Demon, Kindred of the East, et cetera) gives me the impression that you folks have the manpower. As you say, I suppose it's the timing of when they started, I'm just not sure where WW was when they decided to End It All.
IOW, I think having the replacement ready before hand makes more sense than the long wait.

That said, I'm not a Mage fan, so it doesn't hurt me. I don't really frequent the other boards, and stopped reading the newsgroups years ago, so I don't know how badly they're screaming.

Only thing I can say about Vampire is.. New Orleans? ICK! Too Anne Rice for me. I haven't seen the take on it obviously, but NO is too cliche for my tastes.

And, while I don't think it really affects you, the "they'll wait for quality" thing only goes so far. Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu are both games I loved, but the sparse release schedules took the heart out of the games. I'm sure once you guys get done making WoD2, the releases will flow freely, but just keep in mind.

To be honest, that probably puts you in the minority — that is to say, as someone who runs the games who finds the metaplot more useful than problematic.

To go all anecdotal, when I picked up Oriental Adventures and decided to try and see what was going on in the Rokugan setting, the timeline of "recent events" was exceptionally off-putting. I wasn't someone who had followed the metaplot through all the world events that happened as the result of TCG tournaments or the various pre-d20 releases — and considering the number of major setting changes that happened in that brief period of time, it marked the Rokugan setting as clearly not for me.

The Rokugan info in the OA book itself was fine, since it was all history. I agree that major events in novels and other areas (Rokugan via the card games) get tedious. I was amazed by the changes I read for Forgotten Realms concerning the city of Shade.
But White Wolf wasn't like that. Hunter had a metaplot, events flowed, the world happened. So did Demon. They weren't world shattering, they didn't require a lot of searching for answers. It just felt like the world evolved.

That depends entirely on the group, obviously. The new system is pretty significantly different (moreso than the Trinity and Exalted engines were), but still clearly related — but if even being related is too much for your group, well, so it goes.

Never got Trinity or Exalted. I may glance through Trinity d20, but gaming dollars are getting more examined nowadays. I almost bought Adventure d20, until I remembered having other Pulp games and everyone refusing to play them.

I have bought way too much White Wolf material that I'll never use, so don't think I'm one of the Vampire haters or anything. It's just that the system doesn't really flow right for us. Shadowrun is one of the central games we play, and the systems are similar on some levels, yet WW's system just doesn't click for us.
The rules would also have to be pretty simple, since I'd have to type them up for everyone. Any chance of a WoD2 SRD?

But, anyway, I will give it a look, but my lack of use of the 3 shelves of WW stuff I have predisposes me to not buying it. I hope you folks will have a Mummy/ Demon type Possessed Race at some point, since I never got to run neither those nor Nephilim.

 

[teitan]

>Hey look, 50% of the rules may feature combat (and I don't think it's that much) but that doesn't mean you have to run a combat game. Heck, I know Storytellers who've run Vampire Celerity & Fortitude killfests that would make a D&D hack n' slasher cringe.

wouldn't that be MOST WOD games? You know, Katana: The Trenching?

J

 

[Welverin]

And, while I don't think it really affects you, the "they'll wait for quality" thing only goes so far. Shadowrun, Call of Cthulhu are both games I loved, but the sparse release schedules took the heart out of the games. I'm sure once you guys get done making WoD2, the releases will flow freely, but just keep in mind.

I'll bet the Mage fans wil have forgotten the long wait by this time next year so long as the book is good, but wouldn't forget a bad game released in August.

Late and good is better than on time/early and bad, as the PC and video game industry so often illustrates.