Vampire's new "three-round combat" rule

[Blue]

So this is the interesting thing -- for me, the actual time does not make a difference. It really is the rounds.
So, for example, I play D&D 4E because I love the team-based tactical combat.

We played 4e on a weeknight, and when we got to mid paragon the average combat was lasting more than a full session.

The time spent was ridiculous. It took over so badly that it prevented fun. So it was really about time for us.

We had a typical group of gamers, not a tactical live-for-combat wargamers. One players needed to reevaluate all of their available options every round, another recalculated the math every attack (okay, I get +4 to hit from my strength, and +2 from my weapons, and ...), and with 30-45 minutes between actions everyone would space out during it and then end up with frequent recaps of "which one is hurt" and "what conditions do they have on them".

By having lots of unique powers per character, it entered a death spiral where even one player with option paralysis slowed everything down so that combat lost all momentum. In other editions those would be the players that didn't pick spellcasters.

But regardless of the game, 20-30 minutes for a scene is all we need. Not an excuse that "well, *this* scene will supplant several other scenes because it wooooo combat!"

 

[Blue]

What about a three-phone-rule? When three or more players start Facebooking during combat, combat ends. Although, that might be a sign of a bigger problem . . .

In one 4e game about a decade ago we used to have the "Wall of Dell", where everyone kept their character electronically because fo the great tools, so looking around the table there was a wall of laptop lids blocking you from seeing anyone.

Problem was that it was sooooooo easy to engage with during down time, be it when you were not going in a combat not involved in a scene.

Even in one of the 5e games I'm in a bunch of players have their characters on phone/tablet. But at least it's not blocking view of them.

 

[GMMichael]

We played 4e on a weeknight, and when we got to mid paragon the average combat was lasting more than a full session. . .

We had a typical group of gamers, not a tactical live-for-combat wargamers. One players needed to reevaluate all of their available options every round, another recalculated the math every attack (okay, I get +4 to hit from my strength, and +2 from my weapons, and ...), and with 30-45 minutes between actions everyone would space out during it and then end up with frequent recaps of "which one is hurt" and "what conditions do they have on them".

The re-evaluating player might be unavoidable. Actually, there's one solution. Give that player a character that gets only one option in combat. Even if the player quits, problem solved!

This touches on one of the design goals I had for Modos RPG, actually: how to help paralysis-prone players move forward. I ended up reducing damage down to a single die, no bonuses. Roll a greater die to do more damage. PCs can also act on anyone's turn, so it's less traumatic if one's turn gets skipped because that player is indecisive. Three rounds of combat isn't a very solid line when PCs can act at any time, but if it tells you anything, I've seen very few combats go past three rounds.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I do not think that the number of round matter as much as how long it takes to resolve the round. The longer a player takes to resolve their turn the greater the chance other players will become distracted and one has only a short play session the more that the combat eats into the time to play and unfold the story.
When we were young a 2 hour combat in a 10 hour session is nothing but a 2 hour combat in a 2 and half hour session is another matter.

 

[GrahamWills]

We played 4e on a weeknight, and when we got to mid paragon the average combat was lasting more than a full session.

Hey, we play 4e on a weeknight, and we're at mid-paragon too!

Yeah, some groups / people get hung up when you have a ton of options and so games that give them a huge number of options are not a good fit. I've played and run 4E up to level 30 and it is not a game designed for people who want to read facebook when it's not their turn and start their turn with "OK, so what's the situation?" -- that works fine in simple games, but not so well in 4E.

As a GM , if I run into players who seem to take a while to decide stuff, I tell them that I'll give them time to think what they want to do, and they can jump in anytime they are ready, then put them in delay and go to the next person. If something that might be important comes up while they are in thought mode, I might pause and ask them gain if they are ready, because the goal is not to screw them over, but to keep the game flowing.

It seems to work for me.