Vancian isn't really dead...?

[Tenniel]

Yeah, I was hoping for "daily" powers to eventually become "encounter" powers, and possibly (by epic levels) your initial dailies would become at-wills.

I was pondering this too, because I was thinking of getting a Slayers D20 4e campaign going (where Fireball is at will for Beautiful Sorcery Geniuses). Possibilities include:

A feat that allows an encounter power from the tier below to become an at will power
A feat that allows you to use a healing surge to recover an encounter power (as a minor action).
As 2 but you get get to make a save (or Arcana check) to retain the healing surge... not too keen on this as it would slow play, but without it player resources could be drained too quickly... again slowing play
Simply allowing powers from lower tiers to graduate Daily=>Encounter=>At Will (at a rate of, say, 1 every 1 or 2 levels). Perhaps making sure lower level powers are graduated first.

Obviously this makes PCs more (perhaps much more, I'm still a 4e newbie) powerful, so they would need tougher enounters to challenge them.

 

[RigaMortus2]

And so that means, even though you have 2 dailies in your book, you choose only one, and it's just like older memorization. You can't pick just one of them on the fly and cast it, using up your one daily power?

Wizard's were never allowed to cast spells "on the fly" from what I can remember. At least, not in 3E.

Perhaps you are thinking of Sorcerers in 3E?

 

[Vegepygmy]

Wizard's were never allowed to cast spells "on the fly" from what I can remember. At least, not in 3E.

Perhaps you are thinking of Sorcerers in 3E?

He's not saying that he thought wizards ever used to be able to cast spells "on the fly." He's saying that he thought one of the changes 4E was going to bring was that wizards would finally be able to cast spells "on the fly."

I thought that was one of the changes 4E was going to make, too. It turns out we were wrong.

 

[AntiPaladin]

Yep, it's all true. Kill urself.

/wrists

edit: *sigh*

 

[OakwoodDM]

Yeah, I was hoping for "daily" powers to eventually become "encounter" powers, and possibly (by epic levels) your initial dailies would become at-wills.

I was pondering this too, because I was thinking of getting a Slayers D20 4e campaign going (where Fireball is at will for Beautiful Sorcery Geniuses). Possibilities include:

A feat that allows an encounter power from the tier below to become an at will power
A feat that allows you to use a healing surge to recover an encounter power (as a minor action).
As 2 but you get get to make a save (or Arcana check) to retain the healing surge... not too keen on this as it would slow play, but without it player resources could be drained too quickly... again slowing play
Simply allowing powers from lower tiers to graduate Daily=>Encounter=>At Will (at a rate of, say, 1 every 1 or 2 levels). Perhaps making sure lower level powers are graduated first.

Obviously this makes PCs more (perhaps much more, I'm still a 4e newbie) powerful, so they would need tougher enounters to challenge them.

The problem with the first 3 is that you're making feats that absolutely everyone will take as soon as they become available, which is against a prime directive of the game's design. Don't make a feat that is either so good everyone wants it or so bad no-one takes it.

The fourth isn't a bad idea, but it'd need regulation. There'd have to be a limit on the number of each type of power, I'd think, and, yes, you'd have to say something like "only powers whose level is at least 10 levels lower than your own can be converted in this way." otherwise you'd get level 11 characters converting their level 9 powers.

 

[toxicspirit]

I don't really think there is a need for more At-Wills. An alternative could be to remove the 'upgrading' feature of Encounter and Daily Powers, effectively giving you more Powers usable each encounter/day.

 

[Tenniel]

The problem with the first 3 is that ...

The fourth isn't a bad idea, but it'd need regulation....

Thanks for those very good points. My thinking was very 3e, trying to make things fit within the system using the exisiting mechanics. My goal is to make all PCs have more ready access to Fireball (and so on)... so just give them the access. Otherwise players are buying feats just to get the right feel for the campaign.

In balancing the monsters I think maybe increasing hit points might be the way to go as if defences increase the players might not be able to hit them regularly enough to be exciting for them.

Maybe when you get those substitution, instead of swapping the lower level powers out you "graduate" them.

 

[Ninja-to]

Wizard's were never allowed to cast spells "on the fly" from what I can remember. At least, not in 3E.

Perhaps you are thinking of Sorcerers in 3E?

Nope I wasn't. I was asking the question for 4th edition.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You could just not play a wizard.

Apropos of nothing, I wonder how the game would change if you made all per-day powers per-milestone instead.

You could probably take on more tougher encounters per day. Note that Healing Surges are still limited per day - consider whether that's good or not, but keep in mind that this makes Cleric definitely superior in healing to Warlords - Clerics have more daily powers that let you heal without spending healing surges.

My suggestion would be:
After each milestone, your restore the lowest level daily you have already expended. This still rewards "conservation" of powers. In addition (or instead), you might allow people to regain one Healing Surge.

Maybe this:
Each milestone, a character may gain three of the following benefits:
- Gain one Action Point
- You can activate one additional daily item power
- Lowest level Daily attack or encounter power is restored.
- One Healing Surge is restored.