Vanguard:SOH

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I've been in the open beta for the past couple weeks and I like it a lot, although I have some worries about how smooth the launch will be and with the amount of stuff yet to be implemented.

It certainly feels like more of a world than WoW ever did, and as expected the graphics are leaps and bounds better. It certainly has the potential to be a grind-fest, although at least so far at low levels there are enough quests that I've never felt the need to kill stuff just to get some XP. The diplomacy sphere is intriguing and may appeal to a whole different kind of gamer that's been largely left out of the MMO scene. A buddy of mine that is an absolute crafting-whore really likes the crafting system, although I generally avoid crafting like the plague, so I can't speak to that first-hand. The solution to corpse runs seems to strike a reasonable balance as well as providing a money-sink.

I did have one of those 'whoa' moments the other day when I turned on all the eye-candy and switched the viewing limit to max. Standing in a bell tower at the top of a cliff, I could look out across a shimmering bay towards a distant seaside city, and really felt like I was someplace real. Been a while since I've had one of those moments in an MMO.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Err... honestly that was not a dig at WoW. WoW is a great game. GREAT. Like most great games it is very simple... and elegant. However it IS simple… if someone is looking for something ‘more’ Vanguard is a good place to look.

Yeeeah, that's a dig, even if you don't want to admit it.

Honestly, I would love, love, love to see a Vanguard thread where the Vanguard promoters weren't compelled to mention WoW. You should be able to love a game on its own merits, not by how it compares to other games.

And Yes. I am sure. Why do you ask?

Because the notion that you're not going to spend the rest of your life leveling runs exactly counter to what Brad wants you to do. Unless you just drop out of the race and level by accident, you're on a big beautiful treadmill, by design.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Because the notion that you're not going to spend the rest of your life leveling runs exactly counter to what Brad wants you to do. Unless you just drop out of the race and level by accident, you're on a big beautiful treadmill, by design.

And that would be different from? Certainly not EQ, EQ2, WoW, AO, AC, SWG, SB, DDO, CoH, or pretty much any other MMORPG I can think of.

Expecting a discussion of an MMO without references to the de facto standard is silly. Having played all of the above, I've found things in each to like and dislike. Pointing out how something is different from the game other readers are most likely familiar with is not a dig.

 

[El Ravager]

Honestly, I would love, love, love to see a Vanguard thread where the Vanguard promoters weren't compelled to mention WoW. You should be able to love a game on its own merits, not by how it compares to other games.

I understand what you are gettin at, but really its pretty unrealistic to start up a conversation about any MMORPG without mentioning the ginormous 8000 lb gorrilla in the room that is WoW. I think it is reasonable to expect a new game to do something different/better than WoW and want to point that out. It pretty much has too in order to stand a chance at any success. Time will tell if this game actually works out. I haven't paid much attention to this Vanguard, but its gotten some buzz, I might check it out.

 

[borc killer]

I've been in the open beta for the past couple weeks and I like it a lot, although I have some worries about how smooth the launch will be and with the amount of stuff yet to be implemented.

It certainly feels like more of a world than WoW ever did

Yep. I am a bit worried as well. Which is why I am taking a vacation from Vanguard right this sec (after playing it for 9 months or so I was do one anyway). I am going to log on two weeks after release… as playing a half dozen MMO’s and with none of them every getting the launch right I have learned my lesson.
And as for the ‘world’ part… it is the only game I have played since EQ that seemed to put a great deal of importance on that aspect of the game. Which is why I like it so much.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Yep. I am a bit worried as well. Which is why I am taking a vacation from Vanguard right this sec (after playing it for 9 months or so I was do one anyway). I am going to log on two weeks after release… as playing a half dozen MMO’s and with none of them every getting the launch right I have learned my lesson.
And as for the ‘world’ part… it is the only game I have played since EQ that seemed to put a great deal of importance on that aspect of the game. Which is why I like it so much.

I hear ya on the startup. Way back when Anarchy Online launched, they wanted to do something special for the early (post-release) players. I suggested an ingame item of clothing that said 'I survived Beta 6 and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt'. They didn't think it was funny.

Was talking to my friend last night and we're gonna wait till mid Feb, I think.

 

[borc killer]

Honestly, I would love, love, love to see a Vanguard thread where the Vanguard promoters weren't compelled to mention WoW. You should be able to love a game on its own merits, not by how it compares to other games.

I created this tread to give people that were not familiar with Vanguard in any way a chance to see the link and explore the game on their own. Most people have heard of WoW and thus it is a good thing to mention so that people have some basic understanding and a reference.

It is like saying “Hay Joe would you want to come over and play Axis & Allis? It’s like Risk but more in-depth.” By using Risk I let Joe know that it was a strategy board game with a military them… I did not slam Risk for being a simplistic game. *shrug*

Because the notion that you're not going to spend the rest of your life leveling runs exactly counter to what Brad wants you to do. Unless you just drop out of the race and level by accident, you're on a big beautiful treadmill, by design.

*shrug* Some people are power games and those people are going to dedicate their lives to leveling no matter what. If that is your cup of tea then you can do that in Vanguard. It is not mine… I want a rich world to explore and I don’t want to be required to play 5 days a week to get to get a since of accomplishment… I find that Vanguard fits me better than any other game I have played. I never feel compelled to go out and spend hours grinding my time away… if that’s how you play… fine by me. The fact is Brad has helped design a game for people like me and has left room for the hard core types as well.

To each their own.

 

[borc killer]

Was talking to my friend last night and we're gonna wait till mid Feb, I think.

Yea. I did not wait with WoW or EQ or DoC... and I was sorry I didn't. Eventually you learn

 

[El Ravager]

I was browsing the Vanguard website and came across "At this point, we know of no other MMOG that offers the degree of customization that Vanguard does. "

So, should we assume they have or have not heard of City of Heroes?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

*shrug* Some people are power games and those people are going to dedicate their lives to leveling no matter what. If that is your cup of tea then you can do that in Vanguard. It is not mine… I want a rich world to explore and I don’t want to be required to play 5 days a week to get to get a since of accomplishment… I find that Vanguard fits me better than any other game I have played. I never feel compelled to go out and spend hours grinding my time away… if that’s how you play… fine by me. The fact is Brad has helped design a game for people like me and has left room for the hard core types as well.

To each their own.

I want you to come back in six months and confirm that the game worked out for you this way. Because, honestly, you like the same stuff I do in a game, but you're praising Vanguard while consciously ignoring most of what the game is about. That's like playing a game of football for the beautiful turf.

If you want a game where you're not going to have to have your nose to the grindstone 24/7 to feel like you've accomplished something, nothing Brad has fingerprints on is going to be that game, IMO. There are a number of other MMORPGs that are designed to allow explorers and casual players to have fun -- WoW, incidentally, gets dissed by Brad regularly for being one of them -- but this is a strange one to look to that for, since it's very consciously not Brad's design goal with his game.

Now, he does like separating his players out into tiers, and that requires non-uber players to watch the exploits of the higher tier players (not my notion, Brad's -- he's gone into quite a bit of detail about how this is an important part of the social game), so you will be fulfilling a role in the Vanguard ecosystem, but it doesn't seem like that was one of your stated goals.

Honestly, Brad does create nice worlds, although I think some of his design ideals are a little silly, and he likes to dress up griefing as "social gaming," but I think a lot of Vanguard sounds like fun. It's the first major MMORPG to have an Arabian Nights area, for instance. But he's been very clear about his design goals in his regular giant tracts on his message boards. Giving casual players a sense of accomplishment isn't one of them: His earliest posts explicitly say Vanguard isn't the game for them, rather what he believes are the "core" gamers who spend many more hours a week playing are the game's intended audience.

If you're looking for a game that you can jump in and out of when you have time, and want to be able to feel like you've gotten something done while playing 45 minutes or 90, and that's it, I would recommend CoX or WoW or even the redesigned EQ1 before I'd recommend Vanguard.