Vanguard:SOH

[jonathan swift]

My biggest reason for avoiding Vanguard is that it takes up 20 GB of hard drive space. 20 freaking GB!

 

[MaxKaladin]

I started EQ about a month after it launched. It was my first MMORPG. I saw a lot of potential in the idea of the MMORPG and really liked what I saw of EQ at first. The problem was that the design of the game made trying to get anywhere like repeatedly banging your head against a brick wall. It didn't matter if you were grouping or soloing. It was just not a fun experience. It was an exercise in frustration and I quit after about six months.

Back then, it became pretty clear that one of the main reasons for this was Brad McQuaid and his bleeping "Vision". I got the impression he wanted to make games for the hardcore few who could devote their entire lives to playing the game and didn't really care about anybody else. He was very taken with the idea of the elite few at the top and didn't seem to care about anyone else except as an admiring audience for the elite. It also seemed obvious he had some very definate ideas about exactly how the game should be played and did his best to punish anyone who didn't play the right way. In particular, he didn't like soloing and tried to make it all but impossible to solo. He loved grouping and wanted to force you into groups as soon as possible.

Fast forward to a couple of years ago and I first hear about this "Vanguard" game. A few things sound nice and I see potential, but then I read a bunch of typical Brad McQuaid stuff that sounds like he's up to all his old tricks again and hasn't changed a bit. In particular, I remember reading about how characters will have various "modes" like a combat mode and a crafting mode that can only be changed in towns and that characters in the crafting mode won't be able to fight very well. As a result, crafters who want to gather materials outside of town will have to get a group to come along and protect them from monsters while they mine or whatever. (Perhaps this has changed but that's what was being said back then.) In other words, typical "I hate soloing" stuff from Brad McQuaid. It seemed pretty clear he was right back designing for the hardcore few again and I'm not one of them so I just wrote off Vanguard right then.

In the meantime, I find WoW and love it. Someone has finally built a game the casual player can play (except for the end-game raiding but there's plenty of rewarding play before that, unlike EQ).

So, now, fast forward a couple of years and the game is out and I'm hearing that Brad McQuaid is talking about his is game is designed to allow room for the casual player. Frankly, I don't buy it. Like Whizbang Dustyboots, I don't think the leopard has changed his spots.

Now, I can understand what has been said about "feeling like a world". One of the things I liked best about EQ was that it felt like a world and I wanted to explore it. My first EQ character was a ranger made with visions of exploring the various nooks of crannies of the EQ world with my trusty bow in hand. Unfortunately, I couldn't explore it because nobody wanted to make groups for exploring and trying to do it solo just got you slaughtered -- plus I couldn't actually kill anything with my bow because Brad McQuaid had something against archers. When i read the early stuff on Vanguard, it seemed like it was going to be EQ all over again. It sounded like a great world was out there that I wouldn't be able to explore because of the gameplay elements. No thanks.

 

[Cergorach]

Is there a trial for this game?

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

...

FWIW, I'm a week into it, am up to level 16 as a bard, and have grouped with more than one other person exactly twice. Most of the time I'm soloing or with one other person. I am surprised at how much soloable stuff there is to do so far, to the point that when I get a quest that says 'Group' I'm kinda surprised. I'm sure that will continue to become more common, but so far they've done an admirable job of inserting solo-friendly content.

There are four spheres -- adventuring, crafting, diplomacy and harvesting. Anyone can advance in all four spheres. For example, I have zero interest in crafting, but the diplomacy is fun, so I'm adventuring with my buddy and doing diplomacy when he's crafting or not online. And since I'm adventuring anyway, and my crafter friends give me stuff, I picked up skinning and mining so I could scavenge supplies for them while I'm out exploring. There is no 'mode' per se; you have an equipment screen for each activity, and it automatically switches between equipment when you change activities. Start a diplomatic haggle, and it swaps out your chainmail for a silk shirt. Kill a bear and start skinning it, and it swaps your longsword for a skinning knife. Get jumped in the process, and it brings your sword back. There is no opportunity cost (other than the time investment) to doing all four; you can be a kick-ass fighter with a silver tongue and a craftsman's hands if you want.

As for archers, my regular hunting partner is a ranger, and he kicks ass with the bow. He's played a ranger in most other MMOs, too, and says that so far anyway this one is the most archer-friendly.

Now, if you want to be a pure crafter, someone is going to have to provide the materials, so whether you get friends or guildmates to do it, or buy stuff from the broker, is up to you. I don't think that's an unfair burden, though, and it at least helps keep money circulating. And so far, I'm using mostly crafted stuff, as its better than the run of the mill drops and what have you. One of the big issues in any MMO is balancing crafted materials with drops such that the crafters still feel useful and the adventurers don't feel like they are on the receiving end of the economic shaft.

Anyway, so far it seems as solo-friendly as WoW or EQ2, and more than DDO.

 

[MaxKaladin]

FWIW, I'm a week into it, am up to level 16 as a bard, and have grouped with more than one other person exactly twice. Most of the time I'm soloing or with one other person. I am surprised at how much soloable stuff there is to do so far, to the point that when I get a quest that says 'Group' I'm kinda surprised. I'm sure that will continue to become more common, but so far they've done an admirable job of inserting solo-friendly content.

The original EQ was pretty soloable up to about the mid-teens so I'd be interested in hearing how things go in the 20s and up.

There are four spheres -- adventuring, crafting, diplomacy and harvesting. Anyone can advance in all four spheres. For example, I have zero interest in crafting, but the diplomacy is fun, so I'm adventuring with my buddy and doing diplomacy when he's crafting or not online. And since I'm adventuring anyway, and my crafter friends give me stuff, I picked up skinning and mining so I could scavenge supplies for them while I'm out exploring. There is no 'mode' per se; you have an equipment screen for each activity, and it automatically switches between equipment when you change activities. Start a diplomatic haggle, and it swaps out your chainmail for a silk shirt. Kill a bear and start skinning it, and it swaps your longsword for a skinning knife. Get jumped in the process, and it brings your sword back. There is no opportunity cost (other than the time investment) to doing all four; you can be a kick-ass fighter with a silver tongue and a craftsman's hands if you want.

As for archers, my regular hunting partner is a ranger, and he kicks ass with the bow. He's played a ranger in most other MMOs, too, and says that so far anyway this one is the most archer-friendly.

Now, if you want to be a pure crafter, someone is going to have to provide the materials, so whether you get friends or guildmates to do it, or buy stuff from the broker, is up to you. I don't think that's an unfair burden, though, and it at least helps keep money circulating. And so far, I'm using mostly crafted stuff, as its better than the run of the mill drops and what have you. One of the big issues in any MMO is balancing crafted materials with drops such that the crafters still feel useful and the adventurers don't feel like they are on the receiving end of the economic shaft.

That's different from a lot of the stuff I heard early on. One thing was that they were explicit about only being able to change spheres in town.

It's not surprising that the design changed. It does sound better than what I originally read.

 

[borc killer]

I want you to come back in six months and confirm that the game worked out for you this way.

Told you I would come back and tell what I thought.

Main is a 20th level dwarf Pally. I have grouped less than 6 times at this point and there seems to be plenty of non-group content to level, you will not be able to do dungeons without a group… but then you can’t do them in any other MMO I have played. They have modified the EXP system a bit and fixed a few bugs in it so leveling is not painful. It honestly feels like you accomplish something when you level and it is a nice touch that ever ¼ level or so you get more ability points to assign.

Combat:
Solo combat is fun for a pally. Just complex enough and fast… around 30 to 40 seconds a fight.
Group combat is over the top fun. I can honestly say I have played no game that even comes close. Its fast, its frantic, its complex and every move you make matters. I don’t know if every class is that way but the pally is and from what my group mates have said they all love their class as well.

Crafting:
I absolutely loved crafting in beta and it has only gotten better. I have not been doing it hard core like I did in beta but it is less of a click fest and they have tons and tons of recipes now. If you like crafting you will love Vanguard.

Harvesting:
Its good. To be honest this is the only part of the game where I would say it is VERY important to have a group of friends to help you. Harvesting is a group activity… you can harvest by yourself but if you have some people aiding you the effect is dramatic.

Diplomacy:
Love it. I actually teared up during the Dwarf n00b diplomacy quest. Some of the storylines are that good. The game mechanic for Diplomacy is very very well done… plenty of people have talked about it and it is one of the most praised parts of Vanguard… there right, it’s great. Civic diplomacy can be a bit of a grind if you let it be, I tend to move around and talk to many deferent NPCs so I don’t notice it as much as some people seem to who just sit in front of one NPC and play against that person over and over and over again.

Other things: First, if you are enchanted by another game I would not recommend moving to Vanguard. I was done with EQ when I left. I was done with DAoC when I left. Never liked CoH or DDO much. And I was done with WoW when I left. When I am done with Vanguard I am sure I will have something else to play, but for now, for me it is the best game out there.

Bugs? Sure. Just like every game I have ever played it has some bugs. Not any worse than WoW at launch and TONS better than EQ.
Patches? Yep. weekly… they patch at 3-5am PST. I have to say I was always SOO pissed that Blizzard patched during the day and by the time I got home to play the servers would still be down or so bugged that we could not raid. More companies should be doing it this way… so when they put out a bad patch they can fix it before prime time. Just boggles my mind why it took this long for someone to do this.
Did they release it to early? Maybe… Brad says they did but I am happy to pay to play the game and I don’t feel like it is beta.

Grind? I am sure you can grind… in fact a necro has already ground himself to level 50. I don’t chose to grind and Vanguard lets me progress anyway. I personally think grinding is a state of being at this point. If you sit down and kill the same monster over and over again I am sure it would be borring… just like in any game. I just don’t know why someone would do that when you have sooo many options. I meant to do a /played to give you an idea of how many hours I have put in. It can’t be more than 3 or 4 days max. I’ll try and remember to do that tonight. And that number is with a good bit of time doing diplomacy which does not count toward you adventuring exp.

Art? Beautiful. I see people complaining that it is not ‘stylized’ enough… from what I can tell those people have not played the game and are just bad mouthing something they know nothing about… I would never have thought that would happen on the internetz… hehe. Every single race has its own style, some are primitive some are over the top high fantasy. I could not be happier.

System specs? Yea… they are a bit much. You really need at least 2gb of RAM and a 256mb video card to play. I have a 6600GT and it runs ‘good’ with the graphics set to the middle setting. I am not sure I would have as much fun if I had a lesser card.

Approachable? Yep. My wife has had no issues with the game… she is on the low end of the ‘core’ group and I have to say playing our wood elves has been fun.

Ask anything you want and I will try and answer it…

I’ll make sure to come back closer to the 6th month mark and let you know what else I think as well.

 

[borc killer]

Is there a trial for this game?

No. But I am sure they will do one. No idea when. If I see anything on that I will post it here for ya.