Variable Character Power Levels: Opinions

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

Alrighty, to avoid derailing the Evil Onsite thread any further with this one, I figured I'd open it up as its own topic.

This has been mentioned by Reaper on the aforementioned thread, and I have also said that I've done so. I'm not going to port over the discussions placed there already, so let's start new if anyone wishes to.

Personally, I think it's fine if a player uses their character at variable power levels during intereractions where power comes into play. Be it combat, miscellaneous spellcasting, or anything else along those lines. But, I also prefer to freeform my characters. When I play out combats, the dice don't come into play, the character sheets don't come out, and damage isn't calculated, but considered. I can understand where those who use dice for combat wouldn't be crazy about it, since the mere though of having a separate character sheet for each level to have to cross-reference and keep track of would drive me insane.

Mainly what I'm saying is that if my opponent in a freeform battle is fighting fairly, taking and showing damage, and using well thought out attacks, I'll gladly return that to them. Or rather, I will gladly continue to fight that way, as that is how I begin fights. But if my opponent is throwing around 'missle blasts of death' and whatnot, dodging every attack thrown at him no matter what happens, and carrying on as such, then I tend to up things a bit to give an even fight.

Essentially, I'm an equal opportunity player. I don't live for the fight or anything like that, and I'm far from all about battles. Anyone who knows Tharivious knows that he's mainly been in sparring matches, not true combat, but when he is in true combat, I think he fights fairly. But I aim to play so that I can rp with any character, from a level 1 commoner to a super high level titan mage of destruction if need be. And as such, I keep things fair if the storylines ever do reach combat level, out of respect more than anything, to keep things even.

So, post your opinions if you feel like it, if not, then don't, at least we don't have to derail another thread with them.

~ Brandon, One of the Ramblers.

 

[Kathryn_aka_Kat]

Well, I can't use Kat as my example because she's a notorious wimp and she couldn't possible alter her abilities from combat to combat or it would ruin the whole character.

But given a character where the combat abilities aren't so much as part of it, I still wouldn't change them much. Maybe once or twice to include something useful that I had forgotten or not known about, but those changes would then stick. Or maybe role-play the acquisition of the new abilities/spells/artifacts that again would be a permanent change.

If faced with a too-high powered opponent(s) after that, I would take damage and/or leave the field. If the opponent is well-played and just too tough, then they deserve to win, or to scare me off.

If not well-played, then the idea of leaving in disgust doesn't bother me, because I'm not going to care about their opinion or deal with them in combat any more unless they show a change in attitude. Powering up to deal with these people only keeps them active.

 

[Nugan]

I don't really tend to think of my characters as having "power levels" at all. They are individuals, not a table of stats and classes. I've stated this before, but I believe the best thing you can do when creating an ISRP character is to not make a charater sheet (in the traditional sense at all), but rather a list of character quirks, flaws, and defining characteristics without skills, spells, modifiers or anything of the sort.

If you focus on making your character interesting rather than having your character "win", a lot of these issues could disappear. A well role-played loss is infinately more interesting than bringing down a "Dragon Breath Wave of Unholy Destruction" to level your opponent. It will also ganer you a lot more respect from others.

That said, in very general terms, I think the "power level" of a character should remain fairly constant from momment to momment. If your a peasent with leprosy, well, you shouldn't be able to kill a "Dragon Titan Lord" no matter how much you may want to OOC. That said, the "Dragon Titan Lord" shouldn't be able to kill you at his wim, no matter how great he is. Running away should always be an option, and I could see stretching things a little in a case like that. (Maybe you get just enough of an adrenile rush to beat him to the door, etc.)

But if my opponent is throwing around 'missle blasts of death' and whatnot, dodging every attack thrown at him no matter what happens, and carrying on as such, then I tend to up things a bit to give an even fight.

In this case, I'd take the loss of battle, but not allow my character to be killed, and then avoid combat with that player from that point onwards unless they agree to "play fair". Its not worth the loss of face that you could get for looking like a "power gamer" just to beat someone at their own game.

Of course, all of this is just my personal point of veiw.

 

[Ssussunriyh]

Having a variable level of power is a bit easier for a wizard than for other types of characters. True, a high-level wizard has all sorts of awesome magical might and protective wards at his or her disposal. But consider this: does the character have such spells prepared and such defensive wards in place all the time? Not necessarily. And even if the spells are "on tap," the wizard might not have the opportunity to "power up" when trouble starts. Casting multiple protective spells on yourself can take several precious minutes, and you might not have the luxury of that option in a crisis. Also, wizards are notoriously weak in physical combat, but strength and weakness are relative terms. A high-level wizard might be a fairly even match for a low-level fighter in melee combat.

 

[Nevine]

The word "power level" is variable depending on how a person fleshes out their character, be it an entirely freeform character or one from any multitude of gaming systems, etc. Regardless, I will personally play a character a set way in terms of power, people can like it or they can hate it (or not care). That doesn't mean they won't "pull punches" so to speak, they won't unleash "Death Spell of Perilous Peril X" at any given chance(which brings me into agreement with Ssussunriyh's point about casters in general) or be immune to every little thing under the sun. Basically, I nor anyone else should have to change their style or scale themselves in every situation.

It comes down to remaining as true to your character as possible while still maintaining respect for the styles of others and above all else, having fun.

 

[Jaya Ballard Balla'th]

If you're an Epicish character, you've got better things to do than pick fights with low level characters. Even if it is to chill in a bar with friends and a tankard of ale. Jaya dun' pick fights at all, generally. And the last few that he has, he's gotten his arse whooped. So

There are powerlevels, since that's the way pretty much all games are built off of. It's our responsibility as players to play appropriately. If a charie's utterly outmatched, but does something rather unexpected and witty, then hey, it doesn't matter how big and bad you are.. y'just got pounded. That doesn't me that the same outmatched charie's going to be cutting their opponent to ribbons upfront, either. **Shrugs**

Jay's dead on tabletop. Thanks to a lowly minion mage that cast Grease on the stairwell the party was running down. Broke his neck. Sure, it's fantasy, but there's enough realism for that sort of thing. If that same mage had tried flinging spells, Jub-Jub there would still be around and kicking on paper, though, now wouldn't he?

**End-Ramble**

 

[Dontella]

A character, should not have to change levels accordingly. There is no roleplaying in that, all that does is force you to continually re-evaluate an already , and in some cases, long established character and persona.

I'm not going to change my characters for someone else, nor do I have to. If you don't like it, too bad. * is cranky? no, is just sick of hearing this over.. and over.. and over.. all the whining*

I have the right to play my cleric any way I chose, so she might step into a fight with nothing more than her Sanctuary spell ( 1st level ) or she can come out swinging, and use Harm on someone who's annoying her.

Nevertheless, both spells are within her repetoire, and as such I will use whatever the situation calls for. Based on my, and Her judgement, and not the influences of other people.

I made her, I created her, and as such I will play her to whatever end I see fit... I run her, not anyone else, and I'm very tired of people trying to tell me how she should act. The same holds true for all my characters.. I made them, they are mine creations, and as such live and die within the scope of my imagination..

Do I interact with others, yes.. and do so accordingly, but I'm not about to re-work a character that took me 10 years of tabletop to create..

So to sum up-

I"m not changing who my character is, simply because someone else says.. "well it'd be nice if you did"

No one should.

We make our characters, and we watch them grow, and we know what motivates them and what they can do.. why should someone else come along and tell us how to play them.. and how to Roleplay..

They shouldn't.. so stop trying to tell me what to do, and I'll stop telling you to Pike it Berk.

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

I had a big post written up, but my computer froze and I lost it, so let's see if I re-write it....

First off, I completely agree with Ssussunriyh about wizards having the easiest mthod of variation. Their power lies in the spells they have prepared and they live and die by their choices of preparation. However, there is another character type that can vary things quite easily. A rogue who has focused on trickery and bluffing.

I also agree with Kat's point about actual increases in power being kept as a part of the character over time. True increases of power should be steady and continuous, not something gained for one encounter ( Though there are circumstances where that can happen too ). I'll explain:

Of the characters who I play that interact with multiple power levels of other characters, most of them are of this rogue type. While a wizard's power level changes by preparing different spells, a rogue can change their apparent power level through trickery. They can slow their attacks, purposely take hits, and purposely not strike as hard as they can. But when the need arises, they can stop bluffing and go full out using all of the abilities at hand.
And in logic, why would a character who is well versed on secrecy and stealth let all of their abilities be known when dealing with a low level merchant or whatever? Most wouldn't, because it would make them stand out when they don't have to, which would go against how most would seek to keep things. I'm not talking about actual level changes, I'm talking about the character making a consious effort to make it seem like there's less there than what is real.

Originally posted by Nugan
In this case, I'd take the loss of battle, but not allow my character to be killed, and then avoid combat with that player from that point onwards unless they agree to "play fair". Its not worth the loss of face that you could get for looking like a "power gamer" just to beat someone at their own game.

With characters who are low level, this is precisely what I do. I don't play my level 3 goblin as a variable level character, I make him run. But by 'up the level a bit', I mean with the characters who act as I described above; the ones who only put into a fight what they have to. I don't try to beat power gamers at their own game, I merely increase the speed of attacks and the speed of the dodging to a level approapriate to the danger. And in most cases, I still have my character walk away, because if one of those characters is in over their head, they're more than smart enough to know when to leave.

As for the point Jaya brought up about picking fights, my characters don't pick them either. Anyone who knows Tharivious knows that he seldom gets into a true fight, except with Apathy, and even then, lately not even that. He's refused to fight on several ocassions, using words to get out of it, sometimes by bluffing to seem more powerful than he actually is, others by brushing off the person challenging him. He's been challenged to fights to the death and not taken the challenge at all, walking away and disregarding it, since he's too intelligent to take that kind of a risk.

Ok, that brings me up to where I was before crashing, now on to the new post since then, and also touching on Nevine's points since they coincide in many places:

I agree with you on the first point Dontella, a character shouldn't have to change levels accordingly, but as I said above, there are times when they have reason to, and are not actually changing levels, just apparent ones. Second point, no one's asking you to change your characters, I know I'm not, I'm just stating that not all characters have to remain at a static power level. The spells, exactly, that's a perfect example of varying a power level for the situation, the spells cast make things more even depending on the need for them. I'm not saying "It would be nice if you did change power levels", I am saying that there are times when certain characters can do so.

 

[Ladyshade]

Quite a Thinker

Simply put I think it doesn’t have to go as far as changing character levels and powers to either tone down, or bring up a character for whatever reason. First of all, I agree with those who say you shouldn’t have to change your character for anyone whether that is to make it more powerful or less in order to RP along with someone ‘fairly’.

People have bad days. People have good days.

In a strictly role playing sense,.fumble a little people. Lets pretend the uber vampire who’s immune to the sunlight forgot to tie his boot laces *snicker* so he trips and gives so and so a chance to strike well/run/hide.

Magic items aren’t always sure things have some fun with it. Give your character a surprise. That wand character x is using may just sprout flowers next time he wants it to throw fire. What’s the explanation? Who needs one? This is pretend. Not everything in life is explained, why should we go to that trouble for play of this sort?

On the other hand, maybe mister low level ranger (who is still unsure of just how he’s supposed to hold his bow) ate a nice momma cooked meal this morning before he went and mouthed off to Big Bad Evil. :rofl: He’s feeling all alert and healthy, so maybe he won’t be so easily caught when mister vampire reaches for him from the shadows. After all, even a low ‘level’ character can have the common sense enough to know that shadows shouldn’t move like that when one is sober.

Anything is possible in the realm of imagination. The rules and books are there to give people somewhere to start, and even their authors were dreaming it all up. I don’t think you have to change anything about what makes your character ‘that’ character, to make interaction better/fair/fun. You can however play with circumstances surrounding your characters to achieve the same goal.

 

[Jeajea]

The general vibe of what people have to say here is pretty similar, bar some differences over the details. So here's how I deal with things:

Jea is a pretty damned powerful character, by the very nature of what he is. He was the first character I made, and he's the one I'm most attached to. He's also the most complete and in-depth character, with a character history so detailed that I once tried to write it all out as a story, and failed for the work it would've taken. But point is this, I don't want him dying. He has done so several times, and because he's high powered and has friends in the right places, he tends to get brought back.

This is an option, to loose a fight and come back later for revenge. Loosing doesn't have to mean dying, either - to be subdued is fine. This is particularly appropriate for Good vs. Evil when Good wins - Good might take pity on Evil, and try to talk Evil out of their ways when Evil has been subdued. Evil can either genuinely have second thoughts, or merely play along with it. Or if Evil wins, maybe Evil has a reason to want Good alive? Maybe Evil places a spell on Good, or somehow uses Good for Evil's own purposes?

There are many possibilities, and it's just less interesting roleplay to walk in to a fight, blast your enemy or be blasted by your enemy, consequently win or loose, and that be that. A character gone, either yours or the other person's.

Besides, because of the nature of this site, it's all about developing your characters, roleplaying through talking and just having a good time. These three focuses mean that fights should be uncommon, and heavily steeped in story. Too often I see fights that are just done for little reason other than two bored players. (Or in some cases, one VERY bored player).

So, I would rather think an entirely different tack is required to make any progress. We more experienced players all, I think, know the virtue of Roleplay over Hacking and Slashing, so we should be aiming to RP as much as we can with the newer players. Let's make them take their energy away from generating one Uber character after another, and get them to (at least at first) focus on one character, that character's history, personality, appearance and style or roleplay.

When I see a newbie on site, unless they're being actually rude to me or I'm in the middle of something that's very absorbing / important, I'll go to the newbie and go over things - from how to use iChat to how to do good roleplaying. I'm sure I've appeared arrogant at times, it's an unfortunate habit of mine to make myself sound superior, but I hope that (and I think I have succeeded if I look around at the number of people who're still here and doing well who I - at least in part - taught to RP) I've succeeded in both entertaining and educating during my time here.

I know it's not easy, though, and I don't expect everyone to have the patience to teach newbies. All I can say is, the number of newbies that I've taught who have blossomed into very good RPers who's names are now big in this site are beyond my remembering. And now it's just really nice to think that I've helped in part to keep this community alive, and so the (sometimes) difficult beginnings and the people who later decide they don't like RP really and quit... they're worth it.

As a final note, I was a newbie once too. I could credit many people with helping to form my characters and my storylines, many of whome have now left this site. It's always a little painful to loose a friend who's added something valuable to your character. To site an example, Nich was the inspiration that made me start working on Jeajea's past properly. He's the reason Jea was once a Vampire, and this in turn sparked an entire chapter about Fleeting Shadow, Jea's old mentor who removed the curse of the Vampire before Jea took first blood.

It's things like that, which don't even need to come out in RP often, if ever, that are really what give a character depth and interest. You can tell, I think, when a person has no past for a character. They're essentially RPing themselves as a God(ess), and while that's all well and dandy, far more fun is to have a character who has their own life outside of yours. As long as the distinction between real life and roleplay remains intact, a lot of fun is to be had at times.

~Jea's player (What? You actually *read* my ramblings?)