Variable Character Power Levels: Opinions

[Lorna]

This caught my eye and I had to respond:

I believe the best thing you can do when creating an ISRP character is to not make a charater sheet (in the traditional sense at all), but rather a list of character quirks, flaws, and defining characteristics without skills, spells, modifiers or anything of the sort.

I have a problem with this, much of who and what a character is is also what that person can DO.

Ok I have a character, she is afraid of the water, doesn't like the color red, HATES cats with a vengence

so, what can she do? what skills does she have to make her way in the world?

alright I take this a step further:

she is a fighter

What weapons does she fight with? does she prefer ranged weapons to melee? Does she like to wear lots of armor or very little armor to be quick on her feet?

OR

she is a mage

what spells does she prefer to use? Is she good at any particular type of spells?

You see all of these things are easily answered by making at least a VAGUE list of skills and abilities.

Without them you have a character who is rather bland

I would also like to add that often times deciding skills and WHY they have those skills gives me great ideas to expand a character's background.

I start with a general character concept, and often times I have added a great deal to the character background because of their skills

Lorna

 

[JacksonTT]

I agree with what Lorna said, it's fairly important to know what a character is capable of doing before playing them. And there have been plenty of times when someone wanted to start a fight with my character, and told me the power level they were playing on, and I've told them, nope, sorry, I'm not getting my character involved in that, it makes no sense for me to do so. Generally, your characters can figure out whether they stand any chance against something or someone, and bow-out of a sure loss.

 

[WizO_Pounamu]

Knowing your character without sheets

Perhaps it appears that some cannot play their character fairly when they do not have a "character sheet" because that player doesn't know their own character very well. However, from experience and observation, there are many players that don't appear to require a character sheet to know whether their character would be defeated by a type of magic, or be skilled against a fighting style.

For example, one character I used to play had an aversion to swords. There are only two situations in her entire "life" in which she wielded a sword, and one was when she had been required to execute someone with it as a matter of duty. Otherwise she prefered to fight barehanded (or claw and tooth, as the case may be) rather than with the sword that may be lying not 10ft away. I once had it pointed out to me that due to her skill with a knife or a heavy spear, she would very likely pick up swordplay easily. *shrugs* But she wouldn't use it.

Point being, what they are skilled at and use may be affected by what they like or dislike, and in an ISRP game, players that know their characters well often don't need to refer to formal sheets to have their characters react.
A player of this kind of character should be able to see whether the other character may be too much of a threat from short discussion with the other player and vice versa.
No matter the apparent difference in power or skill, players should always be able to say "Hey. I'll get into your fight, but you can't do more than seriously harm my character, ok?"

In my honest opinion, not knowing you opponant's character's exact strengths and weaknesses adds to the tension of the battle in the same way that trying to find out what's going on in a story without people just telling you ooc can be far more fun.

. o O ( Now... how am I going to tie this back on topic? lol )

No, I'm not sure that variable character powers is fair. Especially if it's without ic reason. I do see how it may be a way to allow people to build up their characters ic, instead of launching into a game with high powers immediately.
But personally, I like the characters that are just as likely to be defeated by a "low level" fighter as an higher paladin, so long as the character/player figures out how to do it. (Hidden weakness etc.)

-

Pounamu the rambling?

 

[Jaliloloth Dae'Ithildin]

*applauds* Bravo to the makers of this thread.

Now to add in my two cents, and to do so, I've chosen this name because I'm using this character as an example.

When I started Jalil, I started her off as a 'practitioner of the dark arts' who had come to Juxta and Oerth in search of the devils who were running around then (Helfried and his gang). Well the first question that came to my mind was "Why?" Why would Jalil be looking for devils. It was then I began to pull together her background and from there what she could do. Jalil has her weaknesses...oh does she ever, but to alot of people she seems powerful because they haven't figured out what those weaknesses are. This is because Jalil is good at what she does whether it be talking, seducing, or otherwise bluffing. People fear her (at least some do, heh) because her true power is unknown. She's good at reserving herself, but also let's it be known that she isn't afraid to push herself past her limits when the time and situation come where she needs to in order to accomplish her goals. Jalil has thus become one of my most in-depth characters I play, second only to the infamous Ilye Sena and Dragona (who was my very first and so far longest running character). I RP Jalil to have fun and so other people can have fun.

The main point is this. When you know your character, then the process of RPing comes alot easier. Jalil has gotten into a few fights on site. She has whipped arse and had her own arse whipped (though the latter she would firmly deny ). All my characters are this way. Most of them have sheets simply because I'm a dice freak. I like rolling stats and calculating numbers because the numbers help me round out my characters strengths and weaknesses. If I come up against another character who has a sheet, great. if they want to freeform it, fine as well. And I see nothing wrong with adjusting power levels. I have a character that does it expertly because she loves to get a person's confidence up and then break it (she's cruel like that ). 50 plus characters (no lie) I've played on Wizards at one time or another and each one has had their strengths and weaknesses. The point is, maybe the uber-powerful mage seems as such because her strength is your weakness. Or maybe the lowly commoner kicks the uber-mage's face into the dirt because he picked out the mage's weakness and exploited it with his strengths. Who knows!

What really matters is the fun and the interaction in the process...period

Sincerely,
~Draggyness~ Resident ISRP Evil-doer

 

[Lorna]

oops

 

[Fenmarel]

*waits for Lorna to kill him for not looking to see that she was signed in instead of himself*

Other than IC reasons I don't see the need for adjusting the power level of a character. I don't go with the whole idea of weakening a character so someone else can have fun or boosting them up so they can have fun either. When I come up with a concept I stick with it tooth and nail. A prime example of this happened the other day when I was playing my first level sorcerer. Another player wanted me to have my character fight and kill several nasty summoned monsters so he could level up in game terms or gain some life experience and fighting experience in ISRP terms. If I wanted a character that could whip the snot out of anything that he came across I would make one. Well actually no I wouldn't seeing I WON'T play an uber character pure and simple.

One of the main reasons I have noticed that people adjust the power levels of their characters is because they want to interact with a certain character or player. Why change a character to do that? I would simply come up with a concept that the power level more closely matched what was needed not change an existing character. The other reason I have noticed people change the power level of their characters is to make other people happy. If they don't like the power base of your character then oh well. If we try to please everyone all the time we are going to miserable while attempting to fight an unwinable war.

The reason I like to stick with a certain power level is because no matter how badly I might want the character to do something that they normally couldn't do it won't happen.

I think that most players CAN play their characters without having to consult a character sheet. Every now and then when I am having a problem coming up with say the attitude or fighting style of a character I might make an initial character sheet to give me some form of reference to get my mind working then never look at it again.

I have to agree that some base skills and abilities are needed in ANY character concept. Without them basically you have a mindless simpleton that goes with what everyone else does and has no strengths or weaknesses unique to him/herself. A character sheet helps flesh those out. A fully filled out character sheet I don't think is needed seeing alot of skills are pretty much useless in the ISRP area BUT they do help give the character some depth and substance.

Now I know I am fixing to go off the subject here so forgive me.

One thing I have noticed is that many players tend to look down on other players that do have character sheets for their characters. Just because they need some form of aid to RP does that make them any less of a RPer than the one looking down their nose? If that is the case one could spend the time to find a novel, poem or short story that would resemble almost ALL of the characters in the ISRP area. Now going with that does it mean that you stole the idea from the author? Most likely not but others might think so.

Jason

 

[Lorna]

*glares menacingly at Jason, tries to look mean, fails miserably*


OK, I wish to clarify what I meant in my previous post.

I did not mean to imply that everyone should make a character sheet, that was not my intention. I have several characters with no character sheets, however what I DO have is a list, or at least an idea of what they CAN do, what they are good at, things they enjoy doing etc...

I also have several characters with honest to goodness fully filled out character sheets.

What I was trying to point out though is if you have a character and no idea of what they can and cannot do, you will either end up with a schitzoid or a blah personality.


OK, now I will get back on subject.

Changing power levels according to who I am playing with.....

Personally I do not think it is a good idea, again alot of who a person is, is also what they can do.... how can you be true to the character if yesterday your character was capable of killing a dragon and today is having difficulty taking on a low level bard?
It really does not make much sense to me.

If I were to see a character get defeated by a low level character and then the next day is taking apart a gang of devils and other miscreants, well honestly, I would be leary of the character.

Which explains why most of the time I avoided the viles. There was never a way for my character to judge their abilities, strengths, or weaknesses since they constantly changed.


*Is done for the moment*

Lorna

 

[Nugan]

What I was trying to point out though is if you have a character and no idea of what they can and cannot do, you will either end up with a schitzoid or a blah personality.

This is true, but I don't believe that skills, feats, etc are the best way to go about providing a basis for what your character can and will do.

Character sheets are necessary in DnD for "do I/don't I kill the dragon" reasons. Without them even movement would be forced upon the DM to interpret.

In ISRP, much like real life, its not "do I have atleast a +10 hide modifier" that decides what you do, but rather "what am I afraid of?", "What are my weaknesses?", and so on. Sure, you can say "My character has a 19 in Charisma, so everyone should them", and that may very well work in DnD, but in ISRP (unless you want to comit a big nono and put your stats in your description), no one knows that, so its up to your characters actions to show what your stats may be.

That's not to say that you can't have a character sheet (although I don't care for them personally), its just to say that they shouldn't be the be all, end all of your character. Ultimately, its how you play your character that matters, whether you have a piece of paper to back it up or not, and when it comes down to that quirks and weaknesses are much much much more important than skills or feats.

 

[Nevine]

The ISRP area means different things to different people, what is "necessary" or not is dependent upon the individual. Some may not need/want a character sheet and some may. While I realize people have been careful with their words to make sure this is all seen as opinion, there is no "should" about role-playing styles. There is etiquette, but, those aren't to be confused. Prefering to have a character sheet and knowing the exact skills/spells/etc. a character has and can do does not make the person a better or worse role-player than someone who doesn't use one, they're just different.

To me, a character sheet gives a sense of "completeness" and not to mention it can be fun at times (yes, that's my inner gamer speaking). I don't particular care if anyone else has a sheet for their character or not and I expect the same in return. In short, it really shouldn't matter or affect your opinion of someones style (see, that has to do with etiquette).

 

[Lorna]

Once again let me clarify,


I am NOT saying you need to have a character sheet.

what I AM saying is you DO need some sort of idea of what the character can and cannot do...

Can he/she sing? that would be a skill
Is he/she a good cook? That could also be considered a skill (and was a skill in 2e )
Is he/she good at hunting? fishing? tracking? wood carving? painting? All of these would be considered skills.

All these things help give a more indepth personality to a character. Just like in real life.

For example:


If I were to tell you simply that I am a woman who is a little taller than normal, has red hair, blue eyes and is DEATHLY afraid of heights, while that is a beginning, it doesn't necessarily make me all that interesting to talk to.

however now if I added to that

I can paint, cook, sew, play the flute and the dulcimer, and fish(not all at the same time). I am very good at bowhunting and I know how to read egyptian heiroglyphics. All these things make me a little more unique and hopefully more interesting.

I am not saying you need to put a point value on the characters skills, but at least know what they can do, it also gives your character something to talk about with other characters besides the weather or whether or not playerA_ is going to kill villainZ_.


Lorna