D&D 5E Variant 5e?

[Charlaquin]

I rather think they understood 4E perfectly. How much you want to bet there's an interview with 5E designers discussing how and why they designed healing in 5E with reference to 4E?

I followed 5e’s development very closely. For anyone who remembers the WotC forums during the D&D Next playtest, I was one of the regulars there (Devil’s Advocate was my username at the time). And while there was some discussion of their thinking around HP and healing, and inevitably 4e got brought up, they really tried to avoid talking about it any more than they had to. And no, they clearly did not understand 4e, or at least they didn’t understand what its fans liked about it.

ps - Anyone who LOVES DM'ing and wants to mod 5E should definitely read AIME. Terrific toolbox. It goes up on Humble Bundle every once in a while too.

It is very good, even if you don’t plan to run games actually set in middle earth.

 

[DWChancellor]

And while there was some discussion of their thinking around HP and healing, and inevitably 4e got brought up, they really tried to avoid talking about it any more than they had to. And no, they clearly did not understand 4e, or at least they didn’t understand what its fans liked about it.

I'm going to doff my hat to you while proposing to replace "didn't understand" with "thought they could sell more of something else and didn't want to spit in 4E fan's faces too obviously."

But yes, I agree they jettisoned a lot of what 4E was trying to accomplish to cater to something rather different. How I miss 4E monster design for example! All the talking about how carefully crafted 5Es MM was... balderdash. Especially the CRs and a half-hearted attempt to provide some encounter building guidelines in the DMG. I'd love to see them redesign all of that now with the much much more interesting work WOTC is publishing now in monsters (and Kobold Press, and...)

I'd call it MM.... 1.5 =)

 

[Garthanos]

And no, they clearly did not understand 4e, or at least they didn’t understand what its fans liked about it.

I guess we already mentioned the impoverished attempts to enable 4e things as optional rules.

I think optional things are telling when they cannot anywhere near hit the mark.

 

[Zardnaar]

Very true. Messages can be misunderstood. But my first response to him challenged that misconception and his second reply was blatantly obvious.

He's been doing this for years as we know. His manner of response is just as important as his words. If he had said sometime more like:

"Well, $30 is not a lot to me, but if don't want to spend your money on something before you have a chance to experience it, that is your choice. Still I feel like you are missing out."

instead of "Clearly not." that would have been cool. I can respect that and it would have probably been the end of it. His reply to my next post was even more offensive: "I didn’t imply it. I said it directly." when I asked not to imply I don't support RPGs.

That's the internet, you just dismiss or ignore everything people say then IRL something goes wrong that pierce's your bubble and then you get to insult everyone who disagrees with you.

Internet 101 these days don't you know anything? (joke BTW)

 

[DND_Reborn]

Internet 101 these days don't you know anything? (joke BTW)

I guess I don't. LOL

 

[Tony Vargas]

varies alot I would say 1-8.

So, I don't suppose that'd be on the order 4 or 5 7-8 encounter days for every single 1-encounter day? And one for every 4 or 5 encounter day. And, oh, 2 or 3 for every 2-3. That is, really, /mostly/ 7-8 encounter days?

Or is it a more even distribution, maybe an average of 4?

Hit points don't tend to be the encounter limiting factor. Its usually caster spell slots, but not generally the healer that's the limiting factor.

Cool so your players get ahead of the lack of HD issue by casting aggressively. Sensible, smart play.
Same effect.

while there was some discussion of their thinking around HP and healing, and inevitably 4e got brought up, they really tried to avoid talking about it any more than they had to.

Since saying anything about 4e beyond a very politic phrasing of avoiding repeating it's mistakes, was likely to result in full-scale edition warring, it was understandable.

And no, they clearly did not understand 4e, or at least they didn’t understand what its fans liked about it.

How can we be sure, when discussion of it was functionally suppressed?

 

[Helldritch]

I guess we already mentioned the impoverished attempts to enable 4e things as optional rules.

Well, many features of fourth edition did make it to the core rules of 5ed.

Yet, the only thing that bugs me with 5ed is the concentration rule and yet, I feel that I can't change it a bit for fear of destroying the delicate balance that this rule brings.

What I would like to see though is a change to the philosophy of a save at the end of every turn. Maybe something in the line of : 1 slot higher, a save every minute. 2 slots higher a save every 10 minutes. 3 slots higher, a save every hours. 4 slots a save every day, 5 slots every month. This could bring back some classic story elements like the old king who's been charmed by his evil advisor for a few years. Under the current rules, this is something completely impossible. And yet, there would be potential abuses if I were to bring this up.

 

[Charlaquin]

Since saying anything about 4e beyond a very politic phrasing of avoiding repeating it's mistakes, was likely to result in full-scale edition warring, it was understandable.

Yeah, as a 4e fan I could understand it, but that didn't really make it sting less.

What would have made it sting less was if they had actually embraced some of the things 4e did well, even if they had tried to avoid acknowledging where those ideas came from. Instead, we got mechanics, like hit dice, that superficially resemble 4e mechanics but fail to actually serve any of the design purposes of the mechanics they kinda sorta look like. Which is precisely why I say it's clear they didn't understand 4e. If they had, they would have realized that what its fans cared about was not the aesthetics of 4e, but the function. At least of some of its better ideas.

 

[Garthanos]

Cool so your players get ahead of the lack of HD issue by casting aggressively. Sensible, smart play.
Same effect.

Dependency on a caster of a different color... resulting in end of game day yup same effect.

 

[Xenonnonex]

DTRPG is a great equaliser. Geography doesn't matter.

Even so. Currency conversion costs and shipping make these books quite expensive. Very expensive. Even living in Australia with a very good salary I am hesitant to spend that much on RPGs which I may not even play much.