Vecna v Acererak v Larloch? Who's The Most Powerful Lich?

Forgotten Realms creator Ed Greenwood was recently asked who was the most powerful lich: Vecna, Acererak, or Larloch. Here was his reply!

Forgotten Realms creator Ed Greenwood was recently asked who was the most powerful lich: Vecna, Acererak, or Larloch. Here was his reply!

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"Heh. I've been asked this many times before, and although part of me wonders what's the point of all "who's more powerful?" questions, the answer is: it depends. In terms of raw personal BATTLE power, the answer is likely Vecna. Though so much of his power is vested in his Hand and his Eye that unless they can all be in one place, Larloch might pack more punch. Not that he would fight toe-to-toe in battle, because that isn't Larloch's way; he views liches who do that as idiot failures. Larloch's way is to manipulate from behind the scenes to lead anyone seeking him, or trying to cross him, astray, so they never come into contact with him. If need be, he'd hurl his many, many servitor liches at them, most of whom are personally more powerful than Acererak.

Larloch and Vecna both have a wider reach and influence on the worlds around them than Acererak, so if you're measuring that way, Acererak is left behind. But when it comes to measuring Larloch and Vecna against each other in terms of influence, it's a matter of style: Vecna has the greater fear-reputation and is "noisier," and Larloch is more the master manipulator, who works unseen. As in, you may never know how much he's affected you. I can only go by what Elminster (and on rare occasions Storm, or Laeral, or Volo[!]) tell me of the Realms, and the three Chosen of Mystra all think Larloch (even wherever he is now, bested by the Srinshee) is the greater threat. As El put it, "Vecna is a bogeyman, and his relics do harm. Larloch undresses thee and ye never even know it." Larloch plays the longer game, and is more patient and empathic and has a greater understanding of the multiverse, whereas Vecna is more self-centered. I trust El's judgment, because I must; without it, none of us know ANYTHING about the Realms.

Acererak is feared throughout the multiverse because he's an almost-always-active destructive force. However, that's a one-trick pony. "Hah! I shall destroy you TWICE!!!" ;}"
 

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Iry

Hero
Making all magic part of the weave is like making all races gnomes.
I mean, sure, you can, but why?
As my own rationalization, I always imagined magic like electricity. People got a lot of use out of it and everyone had their own magnet and wire rigs. Archmages and Druids started building turbines that work on river magic, sun magic, shadow magic, etc. Then some FR gods got together and built a nuclear power plant (The Weave) that provided enough power for entire cities and magic for everyday people. Since the drama must flow, it’s melted down a few times, but the general idea is secure.

Now everyone in the multiverse is building their own nuclear power plant.
But not every nuclear power plant is built to the same safety standards. :]
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
As my own rationalization, I always imagined magic like electricity. People got a lot of use out of it and everyone had their own magnet and wire rigs. Archmages and Druids started building turbines that work on river magic, sun magic, shadow magic, etc. Then some FR gods got together and built a nuclear power plant (The Weave) that provided enough power for entire cities and magic for everyday people. Since the drama must flow, it’s melted down a few times, but the general idea is secure.

Now everyone in the multiverse is building their own nuclear power plant.
But not every nuclear power plant is built to the same safety standards. :]

For my part, I like that the Forgotten Realms has the Weave, Dragonlance has the three moons, Darksun has living energy, and so on, to provide the source of magic for the various settings.
 

Iry

Hero
For my part, I like that the Forgotten Realms has the Weave, Dragonlance has the three moons, Darksun has living energy, and so on, to provide the source of magic for the various settings.
Humorously, Dragonlance and Darksun would probably love to learn how to channel magic like wizards from other settings. Darksun especially would benefit from outsourcing, and I always imagined Dragons in Athas trying to entice wizards from other realms into working for them.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Dragonlance might not. Moon magic was useful.

I would assume Darjsun would be an exception if they ever make it. If they add weave and get away from the defiler/ preserver duality by adding a heap of arcane classes you're not really playing Darksun at that point
 


Voadam

Legend
I've used Vecna as a God as a DM, had a player get possessed by the Sword of Kas and quest against Vecna, and interacted with him in his god god role a couple of times as a player.

I've never run or played any of the Tombs of Horror.

I own a ton of FR but had not known about Larloch and just looked up his stats in 3.0's Lords of Darkness. He's got the 1e Lolth problem. A narratively super powerful character but stat wise a huge glass cannon. He's a CR 34 bad guy with 134 hp. Also his description says

"His mind has been affected by his extreme age as well, for at times he is crazed, hurling spells at random, and others he is completely calm. Most times he slays intruders outright."

Which is consistent with other Greenwood stuff I've read on the effects of FR wizardly magics on people's minds over time, wizards usually go crazy over long periods of time.

Vecna fails but his failures get him super results and reach and power. His original failures created artifacts. His 2e failures launched his demigodhood, then 3e itself and then his being a core deity from 3e on.
 

Infinite Chaos

First Post
Forgotten Realms creator Ed Greenwood was recently asked who was the most powerful lich: Vecna, Acererak, or Larloch. Here was his reply!

"Heh. I've been asked this many times before, and although part of me wonders what's the point of all "who's more powerful?" questions, the answer is: it depends. In terms of raw personal BATTLE power, the answer is likely Vecna. Though so much of his power is vested in his Hand and his Eye that unless they can all be in one place, Larloch might pack more punch. Not that he would fight toe-to-toe in battle, because that isn't Larloch's way; he views liches who do that as idiot failures. Larloch's way is to manipulate from behind the scenes to lead anyone seeking him, or trying to cross him, astray, so they never come into contact with him. If need be, he'd hurl his many, many servitor liches at them, most of whom are personally more powerful than Acererak.

Larloch and Vecna both have a wider reach and influence on the worlds around them than Acererak, so if you're measuring that way, Acererak is left behind. But when it comes to measuring Larloch and Vecna against each other in terms of influence, it's a matter of style: Vecna has the greater fear-reputation and is "noisier," and Larloch is more the master manipulator, who works unseen. As in, you may never know how much he's affected you. I can only go by what Elminster (and on rare occasions Storm, or Laeral, or Volo[!]) tell me of the Realms, and the three Chosen of Mystra all think Larloch (even wherever he is now, bested by the Srinshee) is the greater threat. As El put it, "Vecna is a bogeyman, and his relics do harm. Larloch undresses thee and ye never even know it." Larloch plays the longer game, and is more patient and empathic and has a greater understanding of the multiverse, whereas Vecna is more self-centered. I trust El's judgment, because I must; without it, none of us know ANYTHING about the Realms.

Acererak is feared throughout the multiverse because he's an almost-always-active destructive force. However, that's a one-trick pony. "Hah! I shall destroy you TWICE!!!" ;}"
El himself has even admitted to be scared of Larloch.
 


Weiley31

Legend
Considering that in tomb of annihilation, acerack killed several gods.....
Then gets his butt handed to him by a bunch of strange weirdo wackjobs who make a living kicking down the door to random monster houses to steal all of their crap while adhering to some strange will of a being that keeps on tossing them into highly unlikely scenarios as a bizarre form of entertainment.

But hey, at least it makes for good reality tv show watching when a number of said schmucks fall for the Green Face gimmick.
 

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