Viable crossbow builds

[IcyCool]

I've just recently started thinking about this, and the "Mighty Crossbows" thread reminded me that I should post here.

I'm wondering if anyone has some viable crossbow wielding builds? Assume Wizards only stuff.

 

[Pyrex]

I'm not sure about viable but i've always wanted to make a dwarf fighter with TWF & Rapid Shot wielding a light crossbow in each hand.

Of course, this only works if both crossbows have the 'Quickloading' magical property from A&EG that lets you store bolts in an extradimensional space and then reload as a free action.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'm afraid that there are simply no viable crossbow builds (ie - a build which focuses on a crossbow, rather than a build which happens to also use a crossbow).

Frankly - crossbows are crap. You should only use one if you have a single attack per round, and your strength bonus is +1 or less. Once it hits +2, a javelin is better. +3? A SLING is better. As soon as you get more than one attack per round, anything except the sling is better (because the crossbow loading feat is terrible).

There is ONE way in which a crossbow can prove superior. You can fire one while prone. If your enemy is somehow prevented from closing with you, he has a much harder time shooting you. I'd still suggest getting something else and simply using cover.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

A crossbow will always be inferior to every other ranged weapon, IMO...

I could see a low-str fighter going this way, and eventually taking advantage of the xbow's naturally better crit range with Improved Critical.

The first feat you'll need is Rapid Reload, then you build up your character like you would any other archer, except that, IIRC, you can't use manyshot with a xbow (I could be wrong)

AR

 

[ErickArnell]

I've been interested in putting together a fighter or ranger with a repeating heavy crossbow (from SRD: Exotic, 400 gp, 1d8/1d10, 19–20/x2, 120 ft., 12 lb., Piercing) which takes a lot of money and a feat to burn (thus the fighter class, at least for a couple levels).

But the idea of five 1d10 ranged attacks before having to reload is appealing.

From SRD: Crossbow, Repeating: The repeating crossbow (whether heavy or light) holds 5 crossbow bolts. As long as it holds bolts, you can reload it by pulling the reloading lever (a free action). Loading a new case of 5 bolts is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
You can fire a repeating crossbow with one hand or fire a repeating crossbow in each hand in the same manner as you would a normal crossbow of the same size. However, you must fire the weapon with two hands in order to use the reloading lever, and you must use two hands to load a new case of bolts.

 

[Krafen]

I've been interested in putting together a fighter or ranger with a repeating heavy crossbow (from SRD: Exotic, 400 gp, 1d8/1d10, 19–20/x2, 120 ft., 12 lb., Piercing) which takes a lot of money and a feat to burn (thus the fighter class, at least for a couple levels).

But the idea of five 1d10 ranged attacks before having to reload is appealing.

From SRD: Crossbow, Repeating: The repeating crossbow (whether heavy or light) holds 5 crossbow bolts. As long as it holds bolts, you can reload it by pulling the reloading lever (a free action). Loading a new case of 5 bolts is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
You can fire a repeating crossbow with one hand or fire a repeating crossbow in each hand in the same manner as you would a normal crossbow of the same size. However, you must fire the weapon with two hands in order to use the reloading lever, and you must use two hands to load a new case of bolts.

Now, a Quickloading Repeating Crossbow, that has potential.

 

[Saeviomagy]

First up, I'd like to point out that I made a mistake - with the rapid reload feat, a character with a strength bonus of +1 or worse is probably better off choosing rapid reload than quickdraw for his ranged combat needs. I misremembered the feat and thought that it could only be used once per round.

That said, the rest of my statement above still applies.

But the idea of five 1d10 ranged attacks before having to reload is appealing.

I would consider it inferior to a regular crossbow and the rapid reload feat. First - you lose your ammunition flexibility (with rapid reload, you can test out what each monster you face is resistant to by carrying a limited amount of special ammo). Second you are specialising in a rare weapon. Third, having to spend a full-round action every 5 shots is quite painful. Finally 1d10 is equivalent to 1d8+1 or 1d6+2, both of which are possible for a fighter without needing to spend a feat. I suppose you save on strength though.

I don't think it's worth it - at high levels, you'll be spending a round reloading for every round you're firing (4 attacks and rapid shot), and you're only 5 damage (on average) ahead of the regular crossbow user. Even at 2nd level (assuming both have point blank and rapid shot) you're firing for two and a half rounds out of every 4. In the time you loose off 5, your buddy looses off 8.

However - I think you could make a viable low-strength crossbow user. A halfling rogue (max dex, min strength), for instance, could make good use out of the rapid reload feat and a light crossbow.

 

[Felix]

I think the real advantage comes with the Hand X-bow and Rapid Reload. Some reasons:

Because you're using X-bows, your STR will probably stink, so you'll have to do damage some other way than the bolt itself. Meaning that the base damage isn't all that important. Sneak Attack comes to mind.

It's a Tiny weapon, and so is easily concealed. Good for rogues.

With RR, you can get all of your iterative attacks. This will be the same for the Light X-bow.

In Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome, Mel gives up his Hand X-bow, and he's just cool.

 

[Boone]

First up, I'd like to point out that I made a mistake - with the rapid reload feat, a character with a strength bonus of +1 or worse is probably better off choosing rapid reload than quickdraw for his ranged combat needs. I misremembered the feat and thought that it could only be used once per round.

That said, the rest of my statement above still applies.



I would consider it inferior to a regular crossbow and the rapid reload feat. First - you lose your ammunition flexibility (with rapid reload, you can test out what each monster you face is resistant to by carrying a limited amount of special ammo). Second you are specialising in a rare weapon. Third, having to spend a full-round action every 5 shots is quite painful. Finally 1d10 is equivalent to 1d8+1 or 1d6+2, both of which are possible for a fighter without needing to spend a feat. I suppose you save on strength though.

I don't think it's worth it - at high levels, you'll be spending a round reloading for every round you're firing (4 attacks and rapid shot), and you're only 5 damage (on average) ahead of the regular crossbow user. Even at 2nd level (assuming both have point blank and rapid shot) you're firing for two and a half rounds out of every 4. In the time you loose off 5, your buddy looses off 8.

However - I think you could make a viable low-strength crossbow user. A halfling rogue (max dex, min strength), for instance, could make good use out of the rapid reload feat and a light crossbow.

The Hand cross bow is cool idea that we all want desprately to work, but the simple truth is that it sucks.

It takes to long to reload, you can't effectively use rapid shot with it, we all want it to be a hand gun but it's not.


Since we are really looking at away to make an effective ranged sneak attack it seems that a more effective weapon selection would be the DART. It is more concelable and a rapid shot could then be used to increase the number of sneak attacks performed in a round.

If staying on the limits of range is an issue then the inclusion of "Far shot" opens up the weapons to the charcter because now they can incorporate a more effective use of Alchemists Fire, Holy Water, and Acid volleys into their options of support attacks. It also gives the preffered short bow the same effetive range as its bigger cousin.

This line of thinking is particularly attractive to the person playing a Halfling rouge because they get an extra +1 when using a thrown weapon.


Rapid reload seems to be a feat that sucks people but unless you are using BiG Big cross bow in the "Quitisential Fighter" that weighs 25lbs and ignore armor bonuses then it is a big of a waste. IMO

 

[Felix]

The Hand cross bow is cool idea that we all want desprately to work, but the simple truth is that it sucks.

I don't mean to be terribly snarky, but just because you can't see its virtues doesn't make it suck. Read my earlier post. It's small, and that has definite advantages to larger clunkier projectile weapons. It's piercing damage, so you can use poison on the bolts. It doesn't require a 10+ STR to use it properly.

No, it is not the optimal down-range damage thrower for all builds. Nor is it optimal in all circumstance. But when you're crawling through a small tunnel, you're going to have a hell of a time rapid-shooting with your 6-foot tall longbow. The hand x-bow has its uses, and it doesn't suck when it comes to doing those things.

It takes to long to reload, you can't effectively use rapid shot with it,

Rapid Reload. Reloading becomes a free action. I don't know that you can get any faster. If reloading is a free action, then you can use Rapid Shot with it.