[Vile? Mature] Going Too Far.

[mythago]

Aeolius, I'm very sorry you and your wife had such a loss.

 

[The Serge]

Re: Don't beat yourself up...

IMO, one of the hardest things to do as a DM is to "read" your group. Some people want Terry Brooks, some want Robert Jordan, and others want G.Martin/Goodkind (I'm using books because I read a lot).

It sounds like you went Martin/Goodkind when your players want something lighter. An honest mistake, but it's something that I think a DM needs to be aware of. Just learn from it and move on, and patch things up the best you can.

Eewwww... Goodkind in the same league as Martin? I guess if you're referring to the way people die, but even then I don't see any real similarities. Goodkind's more like a slasher film that tries to have a point (Final Destination), while Martin's far more sophisticated... like Seven or something.

 

[Xarlen]

The log can be found here: http://pandora.merkava.org/index.php?id=335

Warning: It's very long. The situation follows thus far: The PCs discussing what they're going to do about a demon-bound weapon. They make a deal with a Yugoloth lawyer to hand it over for whereabouts to the Defiler's (Blight Magic Users) whereabouts. They are told where to find Milanali (The Druid). Fight ensues. The aftermath of the fight is where it's at (Though, she yells at Rosalie, the PC, during the fight).

 

[tleilaxu]

having read the log, in my personal opinion you did nothing wrong

...wait, might have been this line that did it:

Kyrel nods. "Of course. I'm not that surprised, actually. I wonder if we can fix her..."

 

[Michael Morris]

The Red Flag

A convention used in theatre improv that I use at my own game table is the adoption of a "Red Flag." This is a signal of some sort agreed upon by all the participants that will bring the session to an immediate halt when it is used. Whatever this signal is it should be something that characters would not say or do. (For in a scene a character could pationately yell something like "No" or "Stop it" while the player of that character is not in real duress. If the acting is done well it can be difficult to tell if a player wants the scene to stop so it is important that the red flag be unmistakable. Examples include:

Simply calling out, "Red Flag"

Stepping out of the designated acting area (in a game this could easily be stepping away from the table).

My players and I have tackled some very intense material over the years and these flags have been used on occasion to good effect, so I highly recommend their use whenever the group decides that "mature" material is to be on the menu.

 

[KitanaVorr]

...wait, might have been this line that did it:

Kyrel nods. "Of course. I'm not that surprised, actually. I wonder if we can fix her..."

Yes...that is a pretty insensitive line I would have to agree. I would be slightly offended by that.

I'm running a mature themed game that is going to be pretty harsh in the IC thread. Reading this thread has made me think about it. I'm introducing ethnic tension in this game and sometimes I'm afraid my players won't understand it (they all don't seem to quite understand yet) and I hope that after the game perhaps it will be a learning experience.

I think that approaching mature subjects in your game (as long as you warn your players about this far ahead of time and repeatedly until they get it in their heads) is a good thing.

However the real difficulty lies in how you handle the mature subject matter. Personally I think that if you're going to include it, you should do some research on it. If you want to include rape, go read up on the statistics and the emotional impact of it. Ditto with miscarriages, etc. I think that as a GM you are obligated to have done some research before introducing it into your game...I know I wouldn't be too happy if a GM used a mature topic without understanding at all what it really is about. Especially if I know something about it.

If evil characters gloat about the vileness is one thing, when the GM gloats about it as a narrator is totally different. The way you word things is also important.

Sounds like alot of work? Well its what you do everyday at work when dealing with co-workers or when you are just communicating with a person. As a DM, you are not there just for your enjoyment, you're responsible for the other players as well. It disturbs me to see DMs who don't care about their player's feelings.

Now players also need to speak up and make their feelings known so the DM can correct it. Give them a freebie first blunder...though if they do it repeatedly...perhaps this DM is not the one you want to play with.

 

[jemkym]

Hmmm.....

I saw no problem with the storyline at all. In fact, I thought it was excellent -- it was original and I actually wish I would have come up with something like that.

That said, it's difficult to know what sensitive areas a player may have -- especially online. I don't know if the PC just had strong opinions on the issue, but a lot of my family have had miscarriages and they probably wouldn't want to be reminded about it.

In conclusion, I wouldn't worry about it too much and the comment about your age is irrelevant -- I'm 23 and I think I knew more about life when I was 19 !!!!

So, I would just keep playing the way you set fit because I'm sure your upsetting a player wasn't intentional and you seem like you're a good storyteller so don't stop!

 

[Xarlen]

having read the log, in my personal opinion you did nothing wrong

...wait, might have been this line that did it:

Kyrel nods. "Of course. I'm not that surprised, actually. I wonder if we can fix her..."

He was talking about her madness...

 

[Feliath]

What?

After reading the thread, which was very good and mostly insightful, I nonetheless feel the need to interject.

I agree that you should be sensitive to players' tastes, but there's one thing that disturbs me no end: Don't your PC:s ever kill people? I don't care whether it's only when they feel it's justified.
To me, see, if a player decides to play a character who routinely murders (as in, fights to the death, actually kills enemies to stop them, average PC) for whatever reason they might give, that's the go-ahead for me to throw whatever situations I want at that character.
Murder is the worst of all crimes, no qualifier. With everything else, there's some small chance you can recover, or at least enjoy living anyway. Justifiable murder? Yeah, how would you feel if I talked about justifiable rape? Or child torture? I'm guessing revolted. If so, you really have no business playing murderers. "It's OK, he was just a Orc?" Then you're playing a racist bigot. If you can accept that murder is justifiable, then so is all other crime, period. And if you're OK playing a PC with that attitude, you should also be OK with those themes appearing in-game.

As a side note, the 1-in-3 rape statistics are pure bunkum. That simple. Huck them out a window. They do you no good, unless you're one of the people touting the propaganda to gain support for your ideas.


/Feliath

[Edit: I lost a word. ]

 

[mythago]

It seems very weird to me to set up a campaign where the PCs are expected to be "average PCs" (i.e. monster whackers), and then to take umbrage at that, using it as an excuse to ding your PLAYERS with whatever nastiness strikes your fancy.