Vile Poverty

[Aus_Snow]

You took my counter personally because I felt, as you clearly do, personally attacked. I have been, and am, discussing my opinion, nothing more or less.

I took your counter personally? No. Your actual real attempted insults were noted as such, nothing more or less. It seems you have a great deal of trouble admitting certain things, let alone (shock, horror) apologising for them. Your problem, not mine.

These are all either directly insulting, or implying something insulting, in a rather unsubtle manner:

I have the distinct impression of talking to a wall about this with you.

If you insist (as you are) on tying me down and screaming "HA!" when you think you've pinned me into a corner in order to support your point, you're going to be running around quite a bit.

But don't disagree and put up a straw man argument claiming that I haven't supported my point.

I've stated that there is no "evidence" for this, hence (again, as you edited out) the idea of a Straw Man, which is what we have here.

I am familiar with the term, but your use of it in this scenario? Oh, the irony. I did not edit it out, but instead regarded it as unworthy of response, as it was both snide and entirely lacking in foundation.

I no longer know what your point is.

There, see? Admitting something needn't be so difficult.

The original post asked if a Vow of Poverty can be taken by an evil character.

No, it didn't.

I said no.

See above.

as this is the House Rule board, everyone can do with it as they please.

Quite. Please do, by all means. Do whatever you want with it. Or not. Whatever. That goes for anyone else too, whether or not it meshes with their personal take on good and evil, and the rest of it.

For me, and my part, I'm content to say "No, I wouldn't allow it."

I have no issue at all with that (the reality of it, or the stating of that reality), and never would have. It was the misuse of absolutes, statements that came across as baseless and arrogant, and certain other related things, that I have taken issue with up to now.

. . .

With the benefit of hindsight, I realise now that I should have done one of two things: 1) tweaked the feat until it was 'just so', integrated it into the world it's intended for, and posted a request for input from that position; or 2) not posted at all, knowng (as I probably did somewhere in my mind) that something like this would happen.

 

[Thia Halmades]

Aus_Snow:

We disagree. Clearly. And that's fine. I don't want to draw out the argument. I did feel you were being aggressive. If you weren't, hey, my bad. I did defend myself, and being a person who can type out of frustration I, for my part, should have realized (as you did) that no good can come of it. If I misunderstood you, I should have asked for further clarification. I submit I really didn't understand what you were getting at, and hence, was frustrated and felt I was being aggressively dealt with. I reacted. That was wrong of me.

I'm sorry if you felt I was being baseless and arrogant; that isn't really a 'me' thing. I've had people say I can come off that way, then realize that's sometimes simply how I sound, and not meant as a insult, either directly or indirectly.

I like your posts, and I generally agree with you. On this, we disagreed and it got out of hand. So on this point, if we can agree to disagree, that would great. I'll see you on the board.

 

[Kristivas]

(which, let's be frank, having 8 nipples and demons sucking on you all night is pretty freaking bad, but you have a demon army at your disposal. Evil is twisted like that).

What in the blue hell is that?!

I never really got into BoVD or BoED, but that lone statement is enough to make me want to check that book out. That's just.. f***ing disturbing.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Thia, I hope that there will be no lingering issues for either party.

Look, some ridiculous hour of the morning was probably not the best time for me to try and make perfect sense of anything, let alone something that perhaps needed no making sense of in the first place.

It's very, very likely that we both made a number of mistakes and assumptions in analyzing and responding to the other's writings. I know now that I did.

I would also like to apologise. It's not the first time I've gotten overly annoyed with someone's post, one that I've felt to be one negative thing or another (and unnecessarily so), but whatever the case, I think it's best if I don't ever react negatively (i.e., respond with anger) - no matter what. I can't see it being of any use to anyone, so yeah.


Gah. Well I suppose at least it was 'my own' thread that I distorted / helped to distort / whatever.

 

[Thia Halmades]

Aus_Snow: NOW we're on the same page, and I apologize for my part as well. Honestly, no harm was intended, and I've had moments where someone (RC, Nyaricus) has had to say "Hey, dude, coffee.... THEN post." I completely understand.

I still don't think "Vow of Poverty" would work, but that's a personal reaction, based on my understanding and interpretation of alignments. Mechanically, if you want to allow it, I see absolutely no problem with it.

Glad we got this cleared up. I look forward to posting on your threads, and hope I can continue to be of assistance.

 

[Thia Halmades]

Morning, Kristivas!

The "eight nipple demon army" is the sort of thing my brain comes up with in my spare time. It was probably, on some level, inspired by either the BoVD or old Black Dog Studio material. I distinctly recall their stuff being truly sick; not just "gaming material" sick but "Who the **** publishes this?" sick. Tragically, that's just the sort of thing I think of without much effort or provocation. So by all means, let me know if you a hand scaring the bejeebers out of someone.

Both the BoED & BoVD are actually very good; they are niche books, but if you're looking to broaden your horizons, they're ... how to put this ... philosophically sound for a D&D game, yeah? Does that make sense? You couldn't go into a college class with it and expect to get very far, but for what they're doing, they're very effective.

My advice, as always: go to your local gaming/hobby/book store, sit down with some Starbucks (it isn't coffee anymore, it's now it's own drink, and those drinks are collectively referred to as "Starbucks") and leaf through it for an hour, jotting down notes on things you found particularly interesting. If you find yourself thinking later "Hey, I wish I had a copy..." then by all means, grab one. But it isn't going to be useful for everyone, so try before you buy. Why I love Barnes & Noble.

Good morning!

 

[Goblyns Hoard]

I agree with the black-and-white moral point that an evil being is unlikely (though far from incapable) of giving up all worldly goods WITHOUT some form of reward. That doesn't mean they are not able to give up all worldly goods - An Evil Vow of Poverty gives the evil person what they ultimately desire:

POWER

Power to do what they will when they want. Worldly goods are specks of dust next to that gift.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I agree with the black-and-white moral point that an evil being is unlikely (though far from incapable) of giving up all worldly goods WITHOUT some form of reward.

I am 100% with you on that point, given the 'out' that's in parentheses there. FWIW.

That doesn't mean they are not able to give up all worldly goods - An Evil Vow of Poverty gives the evil person what they ultimately desire:

POWER

Power to do what they will when they want. Worldly goods are specks of dust next to that gift.

I agree. That incentive certainly leaps to the forefront, from the pack.


Interestingly (or not), I'm going to have to tone down both the good and evil versions of this feat, due to the intended setting's distinct lack of available magic items (when compared with say, Greyhawk / FR / Eberron / er, the RAW basically).

 

[wuyanei]

Thia Halmades: BoVD? Really! I had instantly assumed that you were refering to Yibb-Tstll of the Cthulhu mythos: "There, about the pulsating black body of the Acient One, hugely winged reptilian creatures without faces cluttered and clutched at a multitude of blackly writhing, pendulous breasts! [The eyes] moved quickly, independently -- sliding with vile viscosity over the whole rotten surface of Yibb-Tstll's pulpy, glistening head!"

Shows you all what I have on my brain. Cthulhu fhtagn!

Edit: Good morning to you as well, Thia Halmades!

 

[Thia Halmades]

Morning wuyanei;

Yeah, either BoVD or Black Dog. I never read any Lovecraft; I have enough problems with my own inner demons without needing his. I read a graphic novel of Pidgeons from Hell once, but that was about it. I must've leafed through that thing over thirty times, but voodoun never really caught my attention. It was well done for what it was, but didn't get me interested in any additional Lovecraft.

And, like you, the stuff sort of sits around turning rancid, and letting off little idea bacteria which infect other parts of my mind. Mmm... brain germs...