Villain’s Level? (For 4 to 6 PC at 5th level)

[Brother Shatterstone]

Villain’s Level? (For 4 to 6 PC at 5th level)

This is going to be a stupid question but I'm bored out of my mind and stuck at work with out my books.

I'm thinking of making a campaign with a central bad guy for the PC to disrupt his plans and try to end his evil ways. (aka kill him.)

The basics: Kingdom is slowly being cut off from the rest of the world as normal traffic that flows threw the area is being ambushed with little to no evidence by who.

Very basic I know but I don't want to give away large details as this will probably end up being a PbP. Now I figure I would be using 4 to 6 5th level characters as I'm in the opinion that no King, Lord, etc, would send first level characters on an important quest. So I figure my villain should be enough of a challenge that victory would not be certain nor should be death. At the same time I would like to be able to have it become more epic in scale with the villain not completely beaten and could make a return to be a bigger issue.

Now what’s a good level for a villain that 4-6, 5th level PC, will not beat outright or get slaughtered by with in a few rounds?

 

[Greybar]

I'd guesstimate at 6th to 8th, depending on his henchmen and such. There's going to be a lot of variables involved though...

john

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

I'd guesstimate at 6th to 8th, depending on his henchmen and such. There's going to be a lot of variables involved though...

john

Thanks john!

Henchman would be sorta of up to how they role played it. Could be few to none or up to a small army...

 

[LuYangShih]

That depends entirely on the players and PCs involved. Every party is different, and it is difficult to say what villian would be the best challenge for them, without being overpowering without knowing any specifics. A good bet in any case is a 7 to 9th level Cleric.

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

Hmmm, I would have thought something stronger as your looking at 20 to 30 combined levels...

I do figure the PCs to have high ability scores as I don't mind the Heroic piece of the game and so will my villain(s).

 

[MarauderX]

About 8th on average would be my estimate, then add in 8 or so henchmen unless your PCs are sorta weak multiclasses or not really a battle prone party. Any lower than that and they get mowed down in 2-3 rounds easily, even by just a flanking rogue that tumbled to get to the BBEG (backstab).

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

About 8th on average would be my estimate, then add in 8 or so henchmen unless your PCs are sorta weak multiclasses or not really a battle prone party. Any lower than that and they get mowed down in 2-3 rounds easily, even by just a flanking rogue that tumbled to get to the BBEG (backstab).

And what about no henchmen...? (as I might have to rethink some of my layout.)

 

[MarauderX]

And what about no henchmen...? (as I might have to rethink some of my layout.)

Hmmm... that's when it gets tricky. There are a few things to wonder about, such as whether the party will have expended it's spells, healing and potions beforehand or will be fully rested for a showdown with an enemy they know.

Any 5th level party can take down a wizard that misses his initiative roll in a few rounds. If prepared a wiz/sorcerer can really do some damage though, so you may want to watch out how this battle begins and progresses. Spell selection to work with a well conceived strategy to start the fight can make a 10th level wizard look like he was 18+. Take Evard's Black Tentacles - a 9th level wizard could cast it way ahead of time as it lasts an hour per level, grapples, and can prevent PCs from taking actions against him - which should be his primary goal each round.

However, if your BBEG is a fighter he will last longer and do more damage per round to whoever is closest to him. Think about which feats and weapons a melee type would go for, and work around that for about 10th level or less. Go for a higher AC, as even a 5th level party of 6 can down a 10th level barbarian in less rounds that it will take him to kill any PC.

In any circumstance, magic items could play a key role and having an extra device or two could mean the difference between a TPK, a tough fight and a pushover. Try to think about the battle a bit, who would do what in the opening rounds, and what your NPC baddie would do to stay alive to deal out more damage, incapacitate a PC, or escape.

 

[Al]

Hmm...ambushes shout 'fighter/rogue' to me, though I suppose most rogue multiclasses would be good. Ranger/rogues are slightly cheesy as a multiclass combination but remarkably powerful.

Depending on the 'real' power of the party (which is dependent on much more than level- ability scores, equipment, optimisation level) 7th or 8th is probably reasonable; if he has decent levelled henchmen then you might want to take him down a level or two.