Vital Strike Questions

[Remathilis]

Ok, got a few questions with vital strike (and its higher-level cousins). In general, the concept is trade your iterative attacks for extra "dice" of damage. However, I want clarification on a few things.

1.) Its an "attack" action, therefore a standard action, correct?

2.) Therefore, I can move my speed and then use it?

3.) Can I use it in conjunction with extra attacks (haste, cleave, whirlwind attack, or dual-wielding)?

4.) Can I charge and use it?

5.) Can I spring attack and use it?

6.) Can I use it with a missile or thrown weapon?

Thanks

 

[Starbuck_II]

Ok, got a few questions with vital strike (and its higher-level cousins). In general, the concept is trade your iterative attacks for extra "dice" of damage. However, I want clarification on a few things.

1.) Its an "attack" action, therefore a standard action, correct?

Correct.

2.) Therefore, I can move my speed and then use it?

Yes.

3.) Can I use it in conjunction with extra attacks (haste, cleave, whirlwind attack, or dual-wielding)?

No, because limited to attack action. Extra attacks require full attack.

4.) Can I charge and use it?

No, Authors wrote preview without any idea for feat worked. They admitted they goofed the preview and you can't charge (because a full action = Charge).

5.) Can I spring attack and use it?

I believe you can.

6.) Can I use it with a missile or thrown weapon?

Thanks

No limit on type of attack range (melee, thrown, projectle).

 

[Salthorae]

I think you can use the Vital Strike at the end of a Charge:

Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a
single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and
take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make
one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals
additional damage.

"...the attack action..." = a single melee attack, which you receive at the end of a charge. Therefore I would say you can use the Vital Strike feats at the end of a charge.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Note that some of Starbuck II's responses are incorrect, I think stemming from an incorrect understanding of what an "attack action" is. Salthorae's response is correct.

Ok, got a few questions with vital strike (and its higher-level cousins). In general, the concept is trade your iterative attacks for extra "dice" of damage. However, I want clarification on a few things.

1.) Its an "attack" action, therefore a standard action, correct?

No. As a standard action, you can make an attack action, but an attack action is a single attack. So, for example, each attack of three iterative attacks is an "attack action." This wording is used often enough -- and caused enough confusion in 3.5 -- that it warrants its own heading uder types of actions.

2.) Therefore, I can move my speed and then use it?

Yes.

3.) Can I use it in conjunction with extra attacks (haste, cleave, whirlwind attack, or dual-wielding)?

No, because it specifically allows a single attack. To be technical, you can use it in conjustion with haste, e.g., but it's irrelevant, because when you use Vital Strike you're giving up the extra attack you'd get from haste.

4.) Can I charge and use it?

Yes.

5.) Can I spring attack and use it?

Yes.

6.) Can I use it with a missile or thrown weapon?

Yes.

 

[pawsplay]

I'm not sure what the design intent was, but to me it does not look like you can use it at the end of a charge or as part of Spring Attack. Both a charge and Spring Attack are full round actions that specify a "single attack," not the attack action. And after all, what is a full attack but an action that allows a number of attacks?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I'm not sure what the design intent was, but to me it does not look like you can use it at the end of a charge or as part of Spring Attack. Both a charge and Spring Attack are full round actions that specify a "single attack," not the attack action. And after all, what is a full attack but an action that allows a number of attacks?

There is no such thing defined as an "attack action." (As I said, it should be defined, because using "attack action" in the English language sense is confusing for many people who are used to seeing "standard action," "move action," and so on as being defined by the rules. When they see the words "attack action," they naturally want it to have a rules definition, but it doesn't.)

An attack action is simply "making an attack."

 

[Starbuck_II]

There is no such thing defined as an "attack action." (As I said, it should be defined, because using "attack action" in the English language sense is confusing for many people who are used to seeing "standard action," "move action," and so on as being defined by the rules. When they see the words "attack action," they naturally want it to have a rules definition, but it doesn't.)

An attack action is simply "making an attack."

Look, bug the designers not me. They said on the Paizo forums you can't charge and Vital Strike.
I was just letting you know.
It isn't RAW (rules as written) or RAI (rules as intended) according to them.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Look, bug the designers not me. They said on the Paizo forums you can't charge and Vital Strike.

No need to be so defensive. A designer statement to that effect is good enough for me. Do you have a link? I can't find it, because Paizo's forums suck so hard. (Seriously, I love you guys, but please get better forum software.)

 

[pawsplay]

There is no such thing defined as an "attack action."

Ah, but there is.

Standard Actions
Most of the common actions characters take, aside from movement, fall into the realm of standard actions.

Attack
Making an attack is a standard action.

See also: TABLE: ACTIONS IN COMBAT

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Ah, but there is.

No, there isn't.

By the evidence you've presented, an AoO is a standard action.

Again, as a standard action, you can perform the action of making an attack (i.e., an attack action). However, it doesn't follow (and is demonstrably not true) that performing the action of making an attack is a standard action.