D&D 5E (2014) Volo vs. Kobold

[CapnZapp]

Volo vs. Kobold

Since Kobold is in singular, my money's on Volo.

 

[Helldritch]

Both products are really good.

Tome of beasts adds a lot of everthing. Some of it can be repetitive as there are way too much fey/spirit in there able to lure adventurer into watery of sensual deaths... Yet some of the monsters a completely new and really inspiring. The void dragon, with its death throes mechanic is simply brilliant. The ghoul empire and the variant ghouls you can find is something I would have liked to think on my own. It was fun and useful to get the Fey Court and the shadow elves but too many feys are evil for my tastes. Feys should be on the good side with many chaotic neutral and only a few evil ones but hey, alignment can be changed to suit my/your tastes.

Volo's on the other hand adds more than monsters. Player races and lore on iconic monsters are really great. With so much idea on how to run them and their psychology, it becomes almost an urge to use some of these monsters. The monster part is a bit light if you compare it with the tome of beasts. But the templates on wizards, druids and warlocks are quite useful and welcome. What the Volo's Guide lack in quantity, it gets in quality. It is really 3 small books in one and it was quite refreshing to have it.

I have both books. But if I were short on money like you seem to be, I would go for the Volo's guide. The tome of beast is great and adds quantity of great quality monsters but some of them are redundant and almost paste and copy. Volo's guide on the other hand, adds less monsters but almost all of them are on the much needed side and at all levels.

Maybe you should ask your players to put some money together for you and buy both books. It is their game as much as yours. Talk with them about that option. You might be surprised at how willing they might be to help you in making such good games for them.

 

[knasser]

There's lots of monster types you could create a campaign around in ToB - shadow fey etc. - and just lots of super cool monsters. I think Volo's is really well done though and I'm planning on dumping gnolls and hags into my game drawing heavily on the info in the book. For what it's worth I bought Volo's in hardback and ToB in PDF but that was partly due to availability/postage costs to Australia.

The ToB actually has lots of Fey, probably around 40-45. They are so many that they start to feel repetitive (to me at least), especially because most of them are evil or CN. There is also a collection of fey Lords and Ladies (like the Lord of the Hunt, or the Queen of Witches) that I really liked.

Well this is interesting. I actually haven't bought it yet, I'm waiting a week to actually click buy. I did get the Ravenloft Bestiary by Leonaru from DM's Guild which I think is excellent and which to my delight had several small fey in it that I can use. So that has opened up the choice again a little. One thing I'm particularly interested in is the Hag stuff from Volo and currently that's probably its strongest draw for me. Is it really that good? I have heard people raving about it. Can somebody give me just the gist of the new background stuff for them? The hag stuff is now likely the deciding factor between the books for me so is it good? Does it go into more detail about their fey origins or where they come from?

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Well this is interesting. I actually haven't bought it yet, I'm waiting a week to actually click buy. I did get the Ravenloft Bestiary by Leonaru from DM's Guild which I think is excellent and which to my delight had several small fey in it that I can use. So that has opened up the choice again a little. One thing I'm particularly interested in is the Hag stuff from Volo and currently that's probably its strongest draw for me. Is it really that good? I have heard people raving about it. Can somebody give me just the gist of the new background stuff for them? The hag stuff is now likely the deciding factor between the books for me so is it good? Does it go into more detail about their fey origins or where they come from?

The gist of it is that hags in Volo's are less like wandering sacks of HP and more like Baba Yaga, Ursula the Sea Witch, and the witch who tried to eat Hansel and Gretel. They are unpredictable and full of weird magic (the DM is encouraged to give them single-use magic items that mimic CR-appropriate spells, like a bottle of wasps that surrounds her and stitches up her wounds with their stingers (acting as a Cure Wounds II). They reproduce by snatching and eating human infants, which causes them to later give birth to a child who will turn into a hag on her thirteenth birthday. They love to set up shop near human settlements and wait for humans to come to them trying to secretly make bargains: think Monkey's Paw stuff here. There's a lot of discussion (a couple of pages) on the nature of the bargains they like to make and how they enjoy corrupting whole communities. Solitary but social, they avoid the company of their peers (unless it's necessary to form a coven in pursuit of a greater goal) but enjoy hearing gossip about them. There's a hag hierarchy, with "aunties" and "grandmothers" who are more powerful than normal hags--some of them even have lair actions although I didn't see any guidance on stats for them.

Hags are long-lived, have inverted standards of beauty (perceive warts and bruises as beautiful, and find regular features and even white teeth unpleasant, etc.) that make them outcasts in fey courts, always have an escape plan, and are loath to engage in physical combat (because it's risky) unless absolutely necessary.

I'm left with a definite feeling that (1) hags, if played according to Volo's standards, should be used almost more as plot devices than "encounters", and certainly not as combat encounters; the presence of a hag in an adventure should imply secretive villagers, corrupted animal monstrosities, weird gingerbread creatures, a troll servant whom she rides around as a mount, and an escape route for the hag if things go poorly; (2) standard MM hags are best used at very low levels or against small parties. A 6th level PC with three companions visiting a hag to bargain for the return of a young man's wits will not be properly terrified of the possibility that she will bite off his fingers with her iron teeth--if she tries, he and his companions would simply nova her into oblivion. At minimum she should insist on seeing him alone, but there also needs to be something preventing them from simply cutting their way into her abode and forcing her at knifepoint to give the wits back, and that works better if the hag is CR 9+ with everything that implies (a "weird magic" bound fire elemental roaring in her hearth, the ability for her hut to simply get up and run away from the player characters as fast as a galloping horse, the fact that the player characters would have to cut their way through an army of animated wax sculptures which turn (back?) into dead children when slain, the fact that the hag has leverage over the villagers who hope for the return of their missing children someday when their term of service as wax sculptures is up).

 

[CapnZapp]

hags, if played according to Volo's standards, should be used almost more as plot devices than "encounters", and certainly not as combat encounters

The kind of combat encounter a hag likes is when a fresh party of level two's or thereabouts just casually saunters up to a full coven to buy some cookies.

Delicious delicious cookies.

 

[gyor]

I wouldn't say don't use Hags for combat encounters, just that Hags are intended to be bosses not minions, and not all or even most encounters aren't combat based.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I wouldn't say don't use Hags for combat encounters, just that Hags are intended to be bosses not minions, and not all or even most encounters aren't combat based.

Since hags are so long-lived (longer-lived than dragons, according to Volo's) and concerned for their own safety, I'm left feeling that a Hag in a Medium through Deadly combat situation should be exiting the combat as quickly as possible. Only if cornered, or if they have overwhelming force on their side (e.g. they overmatch the PCs by 50% or more in both numbers and firepower) should a hag fight. Basically, a hag should fight PCs only if the PCs are a Medium or Hard fight for it. (I.e. quite easy.) Otherwise it should use a weird magic trick to run and live to fight another day.

 

[CapnZapp]

I wouldn't say don't use Hags for combat encounters, just that Hags are intended to be bosses not minions, and not all or even most encounters aren't combat based.

Since hags are so long-lived (longer-lived than dragons, according to Volo's) and concerned for their own safety, I'm left feeling that a Hag in a Medium through Deadly combat situation should be exiting the combat as quickly as possible. Only if cornered, or if they have overwhelming force on their side (e.g. they overmatch the PCs by 50% or more in both numbers and firepower) should a hag fight. Basically, a hag should fight PCs only if the PCs are a Medium or Hard fight for it. (I.e. quite easy.) Otherwise it should use a weird magic trick to run and live to fight another day.

Sure, but also remember D&D is first and foremost meant as a fun game for the players.

Having BBEGs always do the right thing and always flee unless they're winning is not that.

I guess I just felt like making the counterpoint

"sometimes it's perfectly fine for even the oldest and most planning foe to just lose it, charge the heroes and go down in a blaze of glory"​

for the players amusement and feeling of accomplishment. Just sayin'...

 

[delericho]

Sure, but also remember D&D is first and foremost meant as a fun game for the players.

Having BBEGs always do the right thing and always flee unless they're winning is not that.

Surely the trick there is for the PCs to have to arrange things so that the hag has gradually been stripped of her various allies and can't flee (for whatever reason). So it's a challenge for the players: how do you get the drop on her/block the escape routes/whatever?

(And, yeah, it's frustrating for the players when the bad guy flees, so I wouldn't have that happen too often, but it does have the advantage of making the rematch and their eventual victory that much sweeter. )

 

[CapnZapp]

Sure.

But my message is still the same:

It is also quite okay to just drop a Hag or three in your adventure and have them get mowed down by the adventurers.

Not making every encounter live up to its full potential does not mean you are a bad DM, or that you are playing the game badwrongfun.

Cheers!