VoP and intangible benefits

[pbd]

See, if a VoP character is able to accept a wish spell cast on their behalf, ot should be the same for the warforged getting the armor enhancement (by the way, the VoP gives armor bonus , that wouldn't stack so it's kind of a moot point). The gist is, if a charcter can accet a "magic boon" in the form of a wish, why can't they accept a "magic boon" in the form of an enhancement to make them harder to hit?

If both are unsoicited, then why not?

Thankful wizard, "good sir roderick, since you hath vanquished all the evil they prayethed upon our land we cast spell x upon you to make you tougher and more able to vanquish evil"

Sir roderick "oh wait, if you cast that on me it might make my carcass worth something; better not or I will own property"

VoP is allt about flavor and will ALWAYS take a lot of DM discretion when played (the whole bit about holy symbol and spell book is one area). If accepting a "magical boon" does not violate the flavor of the VoP in the campaign, then why should it violate the vow? The DM would essentially be offering it if it was meritted.

 

[fafhrd]

Oh, that particular circumstance is easy enough for Eredor the Impoverished to get around

Alas, muddled celestial law and a sizable donation to the church of Ebeneezer, God of Notaries, saw to a speedy pronouncement of Archemanderus the First of His Name.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Would you allow a VoP character that has done something significant for someone, say stopped a major catastrophe, to owed a favor? It's something, that depending on who owes the favor, can be worth much more than a lot of worldly goods. I wouldn't allow the VoP character to ask for it. That's not in the spirit of Exalted. But if it was offered freely after the fact, then I would allow it myself.

Let's say Penurio the Exalted VoP Monk helps save a lord's land. The lord says "I really want to do you a favour. We're going to build a statue of you in your honour." The monk replies "I thank you for your kindness, good sir, but I humbly request that you would use the money you would have spent on the statue and donate it to the local orphanages."

Now let's say Penurio the Monk and his friends save the lord, who thanks them, and then later they encounter the BBEG, who is holding an evil artefact inside of a vast stronghold guarded by demons. As the party ponders how they can possibly defeat the defenses, who should ride up but the lord from before and his army "We heard about your quest to save these lands from the Demon King. You have saved us and ours from certain doom, and we would like to return the favour. Let us distract the demon guards with an assault while you sneak into the stronghold." This is great roleplaying material, and the monk would definitely allow the noble sacrifice.

A VoP character needs to get his friend raised from the dead. He can't pay for this obviously. Would he be able to do a quest/owe a big favor in return for this valuable service?

Yes. He is questing for a good cause without taking anything for himself

A VoP character (and party) does a quest/favor for a powerful group of wizards. Afterwards, knowing he'll turn down any monetary/item rewards, they offer to place a permanent enchantment on the VoP character.

Strict RAW, this would be allowed. Spirit of the rules, not allowed. XP cost or GP cost, they are still using something of value for their own.

A VoP character can't have magic armor. But a Warforged has natural armor that can be enchanted like magic armor. If after doing a quest/favor for someone magically inclined they wanted to reward the VoP warforged by enchanting his armor for him, would it violate the VoP? This example is very similar to the one above it, but it's comes much closer to having an actual item.

Absolutely definitely not. See the FAQ on players dismembering themself to remove magical tattoos

 

[fafhrd]

Penurio

Masterful touch, Rystil. Bravo.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Masterful touch, Rystil. Bravo.

Thanks

I used Penurio and his friends as an example in a previous VoP thread, where his compatriate Evilor goes for an Atonement for summoning demon armies and raping women because "I'm really sorry that I did it...Because now I don't have my Exalted feats anymore" and gets an Atonement and his Exalted feats back, and Penurio asks for an Atonement to get his VoP back for using a magical item to banish the demons when the rest of his party was dead, and the clerics throw stones at him and curse his wicked and evil ways, commanding him to get out of their sight before they have him executed

 

[Scion]

Spirit of the rules, not allowed. XP cost or GP cost, they are still using something of value for their own.

As even basic spells have a 'gp cost' that would basically be saying that no one could cast spells on him either. Or even the basic weapon they are allowed explicitly which has a value of its own.

Definately a touchy subject all around though, especially when 'intent' and 'spirit of the rules' start getting tossed around, as those are very difficult to judge.. I'd even say impossible to any useful degree of certainty.

 

[Rystil Arden]

As even basic spells have a 'gp cost' that would basically be saying that no one could cast spells on him either. Or even the basic weapon they are allowed explicitly which has a value of its own.

Definately a touchy subject all around though, especially when 'intent' and 'spirit of the rules' start getting tossed around, as those are very difficult to judge.. I'd even say impossible to any useful degree of certainty.

As even basic spells have a 'gp cost' that would basically be saying that no one could cast spells on him either. Or even the basic weapon they are allowed explicitly which has a value of its own.

That's only the cost to get an NPC to cast it, the inconvenience of the NPC caster's spell slot because they are selling themselves, although not everyone charges. You could also say that the VoP has to engage in abstinence because some girls are prostitutes.

XP-cost spells, on the other hand, are basically the equivalent of spells with expensive components.

 

[Scion]

That's only the cost to get an NPC to cast it
...
You could also say that the VoP has to engage in abstinence because some girls are prostitutes.

All spells have an intrinsic worth that you could sell them for. Plus, many spells have a component that is listed as a negligable price, but it still has a cost 'somewhere', it is just too small to bother the character with.. but, with a very strict reading and 'spirit of the rules', even that small cost would be enough to disallow it.

Some people charging isnt the important part, it is that something has an intrinsic worth remember? I am just going with what your arguement seems to be and I find it to be highly limiting when applied to all cases. Which is likely why you put the artificial limitation on, but given the way the rest of the system works and how it is treated then even the others would have to follow the same suit. To do otherwise would be highly inconsistant.

And still, the vop character can even cast spells with expensive components, he can even cast them on himself! There is a way to cast them in the text of the book and no restrictions are there for who the spell may be cast on.

So, I think that you are applying a 'spirit of the rules' arguement that goes outside of the 'spirit of the rules'.. primarily because it seems to go against actual rules text.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Some people charging isnt the important part, it is that something has an intrinsic worth remember? I am just going with what your arguement seems to be and I find it to be highly limiting when applied to all cases.

You've missed my argument. I don't agree that services have an intrinsic value that disallows them to be accepted by VoP characters. A masseuse who charges 50 gold per massage decides to give the VoP character a massage for free? Sure.

I'm saying that Experience Points are an intrinsic cost and are not free. The service of casting a spell doesn't matter, it is the XP cost that does.

 

[Scion]

You've missed my argument.

And I am afraid you have missed mine.

I dont think that it matters one way or another what it might cost the one offering the service, it only matters if it violates the vow, which I do not think that even a long duration effect would unless it was an item or something that the character could actively control somehow.


Lets say that you have an npc who every year can bless an individual and for the rest of that characters life they get a +1 to diplomacy checks with all creatures of type X. It doesnt cost him any money or xp, but it is a permanent bonus. Would you make the characer lose his vow because he was suddenly blessed in such a fashion?

On the one hand it is permanent, on the other it didnt cost any money or exp to place it.