VoP vs. Call Weapon

[Artoomis]

P.S. I am following up both my inquiries with a question about the quarterstaff itself as a holy symbol (if it happened to be such for some particular diety) and a request to submit the AoP stuff to R&D for future inclusion into the FAQ or Errata.

Sam shoud be getting the question about the quarterstaff (since it is a follow-up question), so it will be interesting to see what he has to say. The AoP stuff was answered by someone other than Sam, though I cannot say that Sam could have done any better with no FAQ or errata to draw from.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Do you know that this thread has changed from Call Weaponry vs VoP to a fleshing out and working of VoP?

 

[Artoomis]

Do you know that this thread has changed from Call Weaponry vs VoP to a fleshing out and working of VoP?

Of course it has.

Speaking of which, I got this asnwr from Sam:

"Hi there William,

Well according to the rules as written, a quarterstaff does not function as a normal holy symbol because it does not fit the dimensions of the Holy Symbol equipment entry.

A DM can rule that a certain item can count as a holy symbol as part of a faith. Usually you'll see this as a function of some magic items that are considered relics of a faith, but if a DM wants to allow this for a normal quarterstaff, that is his house rule or new item that he can make or allow. It's just as easy as a house rule that allows Vow of Poverty characters to own simple holy symbols.

Take Care and Good Gaming! "

That's very interesting.

Apparently a Holy Symbol may ONLY be:

Holy symbol, wooden 1 gp wt: —
Holy symbol, silver 25 gp wt: 1 lb.

I am not sure I agree, but there you have it. This is one area where I would not be following the strict rules in my own game, I guess.

 

[javcs]

In order to better understand the relationship between Call Weapon and VoP. And yes, everybody noticed that.

Isn't St Cuthbert Lawful NEUTRAL? (That's what's in CDiv.)

That out of the way, Call Weapon and VoP I might let work together if and only if the weapon being called were a simple non-masterwork weapon without a non-zero positive enhancement bonus, because otherwise it is clearly a magic weapon by all accounts.

On the holy symbol/divine focus and VoP question, I (personally) consider it idiotic that a VoP cleric is shafted to the point where he's useless. However, as to what the rules are, it's unclear, and the jury is still out on it.

Add in (Artoomis posted while I was writing)
From the SRD

Holy Symbol, Silver or Wooden: A holy symbol focuses positive energy. A cleric or paladin uses it as the focus for his spells and as a tool for turning undead. Each religion has its own holy symbol.
Unholy Symbols: An unholy symbol is like a holy symbol except that it focuses negative energy and is used by evil clerics (or by neutral clerics who want to cast evil spells or command undead).

How is that a description of what a holy symbol can or cannot be?

 

[Artoomis]

...On the holy symbol/divine focus and VoP question, I (personally) consider it idiotic that a VoP cleric is shafted to the point where he's useless. However, as to what the rules are, it's unclear, and the jury is still out on it.

WotC's view on that (and it's as official as it is going to get) is that Holy Symbol is not allowed by the vow as written.

I think it is fins to have a wooden holy symbol, and that's well within the spirit and intent of the feat and, I suspect, given the AoP class, that this is what was intended in the first place.

 

[DungeonMaester]

Well if you dont want to carve it in your body like a tatto or such (which what I was aiming at) Then you could but them down as a spell componet, and the Dm wont say a word.

---Rusty

 

[Artoomis]

Well if you dont want to carve it in your body like a tatto or such (which what I was aiming at) Then you could but them down as a spell componet, and the Dm wont say a word.

---Rusty

According to WotC you cannot do this. I wouldn't allow it , either. Part of the properties of a Holy Symbol is that it can be lost, destroyed, etc.

I would allow something like it being a part of a staff or something (provided the staff was not actually used for combat, depending upon the diety). I also would allow a simple wooden one for VoP, as I have stated above.

However, the strict rules don't seem to allow it and WotC does not seem to care to revisit the issue and allow them offically - not even for the AoP who requires one for his/her class features.

All of which seems very, very silly amd misguided.

 

[irdeggman]

Well if you dont want to carve it in your body like a tatto or such (which what I was aiming at) Then you could but them down as a spell componet, and the Dm wont say a word.

---Rusty

Except that a focus (arcane or divine) is not a spell component.

So unless you are suggesting to attempt to sneak a bypass to the VoP restrictions by the DM. . . .

 

[Artoomis]

Well if you dont want to carve it in your body like a tatto or such (which what I was aiming at) Then you could but them down as a spell componet, and the Dm wont say a word.

---Rusty

According to WotC you cannot do this. I wouldn't allow it , either. Part of the properties of a Holy Symbol is that it can be lost, destroyed, etc.

I would allow something like it being a part of a staff or something (provided the staff was not actually used for combat, depending upon the diety). I also would allow a simple wooden one for VoP, as I have stated above.

However, the strict rules don't seem to allow it and WotC does not seem to care to revisit the issue and allow them offically - not even for the AoP who requires one for his/her class features.

All of which seems very, very silly amd misguided.

 

[DungeonMaester]

According to WotC you cannot do this. I wouldn't allow it , either. Part of the properties of a Holy Symbol is that it can be lost, destroyed, etc.

I would allow something like it being a part of a staff or something (provided the staff was not actually used for combat, depending upon the diety). I also would allow a simple wooden one for VoP, as I have stated above.

However, the strict rules don't seem to allow it and WotC does not seem to care to revisit the issue and allow them offically - not even for the AoP who requires one for his/her class features.

All of which seems very, very silly amd misguided.

And flesh can be torn off in the neat of the battle? Does that mean when you dm, getting hit is displayed by a red flash a number apearing over there head?

Except that a focus (arcane or divine) is not a spell component.

So unless you are suggesting to attempt to sneak a bypass to the VoP restrictions by the DM. . . .

No, im saying its a house rule that would go almost undisputed, becuase no Dm wants the head ache of players complaining about can and cants.

---Rusty