VoP vs. Call Weapon

[Dannyalcatraz]

ME
As I've said before, I find the concept of a holy person unable to bear their god's symbol as purely illogical, leading me to the conclusion that VoP as written is deeply flawed.

<snip>

Imagine a layman meeting a being of great power (the ascetic) allegedly aligned to St. Cuthbert, but who loses that power upon grasping St. Cuthbert's symbol. To the layman, that would look like St. Cuthbert is punishing the ascetic for touching the symbol...much like how such a symbol would burn a vampire. It makes the ascetic look like a liar.

FTDM
Your argument sounds reasonable for a Neutral good god, or a LG or CG god that favors good.

???

I chose St. Cuthbert at random- it could have been any god or philosophy that would satisfy the VoP- so don't get into the particulars of one god vs another. I'm talking in general terms here.

So, you're going to have to explain this again...why would ANY god or divine force grant a set of abilities to his most faithful followers that would preclude those followers from carrying the symbol of that god or divine force?

It is a common trope in religions and legends that those opposed to {fill in the blank deity} cannot handle the symbols or holy objects or read the scriptures of {fill in the blank deity}. To attempt such results in loss of power by/damage to/destruction of the being not aligned with {fill in the blank deity}.

And this holds true across ethoi- a priest who handles an unholy book devoted to {fill in the blank EVIL deity} would be just as sickened as a cultist handling a holy book devoted to {fill in the blank GOOD deity}.

And this is EXACTLY what happens when an ascetic handles the holy symbol of his own faith. Despite his claims of supreme devotion to {fill in the blank deity}, use of {fill in the blank deity's} holy symbol renders him powerless. Forever. Instead of looking like the most blessed of {fill in the blank deity's} followers, he looks like {fill in the blank deity's}enemy.

Well as as been pointed several times the VoP is a role-playing tool for "mature" gamers.

Which does nothing about resolving the internal inconsistency.

Alternatively, the problem could be overcome with an exalted feat (VOP characters get bonus exalted feats anyway) that worked like Eschew Materials.

Or a house rule that says that someone with Sacred Vow no longer needs a holy symbol- the power of the vow itself acts as a direct channel to the divine force to whom the vow is sworn, and when needed, a holy symbol simply manifests...

 

[irdeggman]

No, im saying its a house rule that would go almost undisputed, becuase no Dm wants the head ache of players complaining about can and cants.

---Rusty

See now we are talking about ways to bypass the VoP as written.

Which, IMO, is pretty much what the WotC information "cautioned" against. That is people trying to come up with ways to work around a specified restriction (for a role-playing based characteristic).

What seems like a long time ago I posted a reply on VoP and its use (in another thread) where I basically said in my experience I have found that people fail to role-play the ascetic and take VoP for purely a power-gaming power up.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Not me- I just don't think the VoP is well written, and playing it RAW leads to inconsistencies.

 

[irdeggman]

Not me- I just don't think the VoP is well written, and playing it RAW leads to inconsistencies.

Inconsistencies or inequalities?

There is a difference.

WotC has pointed out that the VoP is not equal for all classes - basically it works better for some than others.

 

[Artoomis]

And flesh can be torn off in the neat of the battle? Does that mean when you dm, getting hit is displayed by a red flash a number apearing over there head? ...

---Rusty

I have not a clue what you are trying to say here.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Inconsistencies or inequalities?

There is a difference.

WotC has pointed out that the VoP is not equal for all classes - basically it works better for some than others.

Inconsistencies.

While I have no problem with the WotC assertion that VoP is not going to work equally well for all classes, it is illogical that a sacred vow to a deity or divine power would work so poorly for a class closely connected to the divine.

VoP gutting the combat abilities of warrior types by limiting weapon and armor selection? I'm fine with that.

VoP stripping core spells and powers from consecrated servants of the divine? Barring them from carrying the symbol of their faith? "Exalting" by divesting them of power?

Simply D.U.M.B. (Demonstrably, Unbelievably Messed-up, Baby!)

 

[DungeonMaester]

House rules trying to break the game..Never seen that happen before.

---Rusty

 

[Artoomis]

Inconsistencies or inequalities?

There is a difference.

WotC has pointed out that the VoP is not equal for all classes - basically it works better for some than others.

Inconsistencies with AoP prestige class, certainly. A class that require VoP but yet cannot be used within the confines of VoP?

I have no trouble at all with the fact that VoP is clearly more suited for some classes than for others.

 

[Artoomis]

House rules trying to break the game..Never seen that happen before.

---Rusty

"Break the game?"

What ARE you talking about?!?

 

[DungeonMaester]

I have not a clue what you are trying to say here.

Holy symbol has to be destoryed, stolen, ect ect.

So you cant carve out human flesh in your games? A holy symbol carved in thier own flesh can be destoryed and or stolen by the blade of a sword, whip, ect ect.

---Rusty