VoP vs. Call Weapon

[Drowbane]

Hmmm. By Frank's opinion you could cast "Magic Weapon" on a VoPer and he'd be forced to drop the thing, since it becomes a.... magic weapon. Oils of enchantment would be a freakish way to defeat a VoPer.

Furtermore, a VoPer would instantly violate his vow if he used any weapons after lvl 5 (?) when he gets Exalted Strike (+1 enhancement bonus and all that).

 

[noretoc]

I dont usually jump in on these types of threads, but in this case, I think both sides are right. It actually depends on the vow.

If you are playing the vow as "Poor people don't have it, so why should I" then using the power would be fine. You are still as destitute as they are. If however you are looking at it in a more eastern light and thinking of it as
"One does not need to rely on material objects, and may only grow by giving them up" then the spell would be out, as it is just away around the vow.

 

[Artoomis]

Question:

Why would a VoP Psychic Warrior choose this power? They gain almost nothing. Surely they have better choices.

That aside.

If the weapon called is Martial or Exotic and the Psychic Warrior uses it for even one round they are done with VoP. Period. This much at least, is very, very clear from the Vow itself.

The rest kind of depends on how you view it.

Generally, it's simple. If you are splitting hairs to stay within the Vow you are probably violating it.

Using a physical weapon that is arguably magical (whether it truly is or is not) certainly violates the spirit of the Vow and that should answer thw question right there.

Not allowed.

Receiving the Magic Weapon Spell, using a Soul Knive (which is manifested and not an actual item, right?) are all okay.

 

[frankthedm]

There is a distinction between something that is a permanent magic item and having something in your possession enhanced by a spell, and its reflected in that sentence.

You can receive a spell, you can’t use any stuff than has become a magic item. Your friend hits one of your possessions with a spell that makes it a magic item, you take it off because it is a magic item and you tell your friend not to do that again. This should not even happen in the first place since the character has had ample time to explain to his compatriots his limitations.

 

[Artoomis]

You can receive a spell, you can’t use any stuff than has become a magic item. Your friend hits one of your possessions with a spell that makes it a magic item, you take it off because it is a magic item and you tell your friend not to do that again. This should not even happen in the first place since the character has had ample time to explain to his compatriots his limitations.

No it does not make it a magic item. It makes it a mundane item with a spell cast upon it. Not the same thing at all.

I see no issues with this.

 

[frankthedm]

No it does not make it a magic item. It makes it a mundane item with a spell cast upon it. Not the same thing at all.

I see no issues with this.

So can Shatter work on it? If not, it certainly is a magic item. Will it recieve a save against an area effect if left unattended? If it recieves a save, damn right it is a magic weapon.

I think the reading that some might feel is ‘strict’ or ‘anal retentive’ helps prevent allies from trying to "kit up" a VOP character. Maybe there is not a lot in the core rules that can give a better bonus that what the VOP already has, but one can never be certain what splat material will be released. My reading is ready for the 7th level, Ultra pricey component, make ally's weapon nearly epic, spell, which the VOP character should be refusing in the first place. That is the "Spirit" of the VOP.

If there was a way to make sure the other party member could not invest cash on boosts they intended to sneak onto a VOP character, i might not be so hard line. As it stands, this reading is the only way a party is prevented from pouring GP into buffing the VOP's supposed to be mundane gear through scrolls and wands the casters will be using on the VOP.

Maybe I am imagining the problem, but from the discussions I’ve seen, there sometimes seems to be a goal of, “The other party members pumping up the VOP character.”

 

[Artoomis]

Talking about Magic Weapon and Greater Magic Weapon:

So can Shatter work on it?

I think so, yes.

Will it recieve a save against an area effect if left unattended?

I don't think so.

 

[Solarious]

Of course Shatter works on it. If unattended, it does not recieve a save. It isn't a magic item, because all magic items must be masterwork. A VoP character's weapons are, for obvious reasons, not masterwork. Besides, being treated as a magical weapon is different from getting enhancement bonuses from a spell, as noted already. If a party is struggling against a deadly enemy on a time limit, will he or she refuse a healing spell because it can be bought (by RAW, anyways) from NPCs for a gold value? Do they refuse protection from a particularly deadly attack mode they haven't gotten protection/immunity from? Will they not try to be as prepared as possible against a villian attempting to end the world? If so, then the VoP player is being an idiot, not Exalted.

I do believe you're imagining the 'buff up the VoP character' problem. Most experienced parties will already buff up before an encounter, and VoP doesn't change that. In fact, it is harder because VoP bonuses already give several bonuses that don't stack with standard buffing spells. Besides which, those are things that can be blasted apart with Dispels, while VoP bonuses cannot.

 

[Drowbane]

So Frank,

Could a VoP Cleric use his god-given spells without violating his vows? Greater Magic weapon on a spear, for example (ignoring the fact that his VoP already hooks him up in these regards and he would likely gain nothing from the spell)?

How about a VoP Good Incarnate? Could such a character use an Incarnate Weapon soulmeld (or any soulmelds, really!) without violating his VoP? A Good Incarnate can manifest a Warhammer with that meld... not a "simple" weapon... but obviously not something that costs money or could have gone to feed the poor or whatever.

Same is true of the Psionic Call Weapon. It costs nothing.... yet a 75gp (?) x-bow and a few hundred bolts is perfectly fine for a VoPer to use...

RaI > RaW everytime.

 

[irdeggman]

So by a strict reading of the VoP the following spells could never be used:

Magic Fang
Magical Weapon
Magic Stone
Magical Vestment
Holy Sword

I don't think there is a problem with Mage Armor since it is not an "enhancement" bonus but pretty much any spell that applies an enhancement bonus to weapons, armor or items would be forbidden.

Also the soulknife would be a class that would be forbidden since his mindblade gets an enhancement bonus to his mindblade at higher levels and not just treated as magica for purposes of bypassing DR. This would make it the only class that is forbidden, not just severely restricted.