Vop vs spell casting materials

[fafhrd]

after reading VoP front to back I have made the final decision, no Wizard class.

Even if they're willing to just be a read magic(+ potential spell mastery) machine? Why expressly forbid it?

 

[DonTadow]

Just wanted to run my players new pc concept by the rules forum see what you all thought. It’s a question of Vop vs. Wizard’s spell components & spell book.
Campaign is starting out at 5th level the player wants 2nd level Monk / 3rd level Wizard w/ VoP. I disallowed the Wizard class outright. My ruling was based on possessing anything of value; book & components. His reply “I will only pick spells with less that 1 gp cost to cast and I will get the eschew materials feat”. I again refuted the possession of the spell book, and suggested he consider the Sorcerer w/ eschew materials feat. He gave in. Am I wrong to disallow a Wizards spell book to a pc with The VoP?


Malum

I'd have ruled that it was allowed. If the VOP did not allow for the Wizard class, it would be in the book or future errata. The Wizard class is not banned as far as RAW goes. The POV wizard is allowed to have one item. could this item not be his spell book. His agreement not to cast any spells with a material cost is fine as well. It is no different from a Cleric having a symbol of his god and prayer books.

I'm more of a player's DM. Let him allow it and see where it goes. It sounds like a great cocnept and the player is willing to work with you. Isn't it his campaign too or should we all be holding up the nazi solute sign?

 

[Dimwhit]

Furthermore if he wishes to be a Sorcerer he cannot cast spells that cost above 1gp of material

Why not? BoED actually has a method for VoP characters to sacrifice EXP for components of 1gp or higher value. Why not just use that? He wants to cast a spell with a 100gp component, it costs him 100 exp. Any particular reason you wouldn't allow this?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Even if they're willing to just be a read magic(+ potential spell mastery) machine? Why expressly forbid it?

Because it's supplemental material and he can pick and choose from it. If it makes no sense, then don't allow it. A read magic monkey is pretty stupid and spell mastery doesn't help at all (arguable as noted earlier).

I'm more of a player's DM. Let him allow it and see where it goes. It sounds like a great cocnept and the player is willing to work with you.

Great concept? willing to work with you? I don't think so. By the choice in character, the player is clearly powergaming. I'm okay with it, but don't try to label him with altruistic motives.

Isn't it his campaign too or should we all be holding up the nazi solute sign?

Ooo, nice one there. I guess you're so oblivious to the purpose of this thread that you gotta start throwing around insults? Sheesh, I mean, really.

 

[DonTadow]

Because it's supplemental material and he can pick and choose from it. If it makes no sense, then don't allow it. A read magic monkey is pretty stupid and spell mastery doesn't help at all (arguable as noted earlier).
Great concept? willing to work with you? I don't think so. By the choice in character, the player is clearly powergaming. I'm okay with it, but don't try to label him with altruistic motives.
Ooo, nice one there. I guess you're so oblivious to the purpose of this thread that you gotta start throwing around insults? Sheesh, I mean, really.

First, I wasn't implying that the guy is a nazi, only that he seems to be very much a dictator (my apologies if i offended anyone) over this game, and teh game should be built by all thep layers, not just the one behind the DM screen

From what i am gathering, this guy wants to know if he should allow this character or not. And I am saying he shoudl... now how didn't i get the point of this thread. I'm also saying that if he doesnt allow it, by throwing out something that is in the rules he is inputting a heavy dictatorship over his game that has no cause. Nothing in the rules says it shouldnt be allowed. There is even a feat and ability to assist. I think if you're going to ban something ban the book before it even comes to game, but don't allow the book and line item veto something because of a technicallity.

You see power gamer, I see an interesting concept. It seems I guess I don't come in contact with too many power gamers in my games, so I'm not fearful of them. If you're the DM, let it go and see if he powergames. IF he does, have him draw up another charcter, but

 

[Dimwhit]

By the choice in character, the player is clearly powergaming. I'm okay with it, but don't try to label him with altruistic motives.

I love blanket statements like this...

 

[Infiniti2000]

First, I wasn't implying that the guy is a nazi, only that he seems to be very much a dictator (my apologies if i offended anyone) over this game, and teh game should be built by all thep layers, not just the one behind the DM screen

The DM is by no means a dictator here. The player asked and the DM spent a couple of days and enlisted the help of the people here to consider it. Based on the discussion herein, he decided against allowing it. Your statement that he's very much a dictator is patently false.

I think if you're going to ban something ban the book before it even comes to game, but don't allow the book and line item veto something because of a technicallity.

This I wholeheartedly disagree with. I cannot emphasize enough how bad I think your idea is. You definitely should not ba/allow the whole book. You should absolutely consider each and every element of a supplement before allowing it; line item veto if you must call it that.

You see power gamer, I see an interesting concept. It seems I guess I don't come in contact with too many power gamers in my games, so I'm not fearful of them. If you're the DM, let it go and see if he powergames. IF he does, have him draw up another charcter, but

The choice of monk 2/wizard 3 is clearly a powergaming choice. It is certainly not for background or as an interesting concept. Add in VoP and it's even more clear. I can guarantee that if asked the player would say he wanted to be a wizard for the faster spell progression over sorcerer (if the player were honest about it).

 

[irdeggman]

Because it's supplemental material and he can pick and choose from it. If it makes no sense, then don't allow it.

More significantly it is in the "Variant Rules" section of the book itself. This, by definition makes it entirely a DM call as to whether or not he uses it.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I love blanket statements like this...

Blanket? I don't think that word means what you think it means. I was being specific: "by the choice in character".

 

[fafhrd]

Because it's supplemental material and he can pick and choose from it. If it makes no sense, then don't allow it. A read magic monkey is pretty stupid and spell mastery doesn't help at all (arguable as noted earlier).

Thanks for answering on his behalf. Regarding spell mastery, it doesn't seem useless if the character had taken it before he took the vow, especially if he doesn't want to pursue further levels in wizard.