Vorpal Crits

[hong]

But you do need to physically roll dice to trigger the vorpal ability.

No, you just need to get max damage.

 

[Zurai]

Those are bonuses to damage, not an effect that is triggered by rolling dice.

Incorrect. The PHB is very clear that they only come into play when you "roll damage".

Yes, that means the PHB contradicts itself when it says you don't roll damage for crits, but all the examples include adding enhancement bonuses.

 

[Caliban]

The PHB specifically states that rather than rolling the dice, you get max damage. Which is equivalent to saying that a crit is a normal damage roll, but with max damage.

No, it's not equivalent Hong.

You can keep repeating it, but that doesn't make it true.

A crit gives you max damage instead of the normal damage roll. It is not equivalent to a normal damage roll. It's not normal in any way.

 

[Caliban]

Incorrect. The PHB is very clear that they only come into play when you "roll damage".

Yes, that means the PHB contradicts itself when it says you don't roll damage for crits, but all the examples include adding enhancement bonuses.

I am so not interested in discussing this. Really.

 

[Timmer]

*waves*

If I may interject. I actually find this conversation enlightening and hope none of the participants are taking the other side personally!

What I wanted to say is that I think both sides are arguing from the wrong angle. If I may...

I am reminded of my favorite card game (The Spoils, RIP) with beautiful rules. There was lots of discussions about rules on cards being played. It took a while to get ones head wrapped around them but it went something like this:
You can play a card but the card at that point has not been played.
Once you play a card, triggers occur, etc. If the card is still valid/alive at that point it can be put into play.
Once a card is put into play in this manor it has been played.
Not all cards will enter play and will have been played; for example, another card rule may put a card into play. It is in play but has not been played.
Further, a player may play a card but something will occur that keeps it from being put into play and therefore from being played.

Sorry for my ramble. The reason I bring that up is that it sounds obtuse at first but once you realize play, been played, and entered play were keywords with their various triggers, this made cards and their effects easier to understand (stuff like "When a card enters play, do X" or "When a card has been played", etc).

Now back to this discussion....

I feel that people are arguing too high level. The real question is:
1. Is damage roll a keyword rule or is it more a vague expression like "I rolled a fighter character last night" (you may have not rolled a single die!)
... if you think it is a keyword rule, then ...
2. does it refer to the act of rolling die or the act of computing damage

Once those questions are answered, the rest follows. And, now, back to the show!

 

[hong]

No, it's not equivalent Hong.

You can keep repeating it, but that doesn't make it true.

A crit gives you max damage instead of the normal damage roll. It is not equivalent to a normal damage roll. It's not normal in any way.

It has to be equivalent to a normal damage roll, because there are no special rules for adding all the other bits that Zurai mentioned to a crit. Unless, that is, you are willing to countenance the possibility that those other bits in fact don't apply to a crit.

 

[Victoly]

So, Hong, why do you think the PHB uses "roll" to mean one thing in the section on critical hits (physically rolling the dice - "Rather than roll damage...") and a completely different thing in the section describing vorpal weapons (attaining a particular numerical result for your damage)?

 

[Caliban]

It has to be equivalent to a normal damage roll.

No it doesn't.

 

[hong]

So, Hong, why do you think the PHB uses "roll" to mean one thing in the section on critical hits (physically rolling the dice - "Rather than roll damage...") and a completely different thing in the section describing vorpal weapons (attaining a particular numerical result for your damage)?

Because English doesn't have to conform to the rigorous standards of legalese.

 

[hong]

No it doesn't.

Yes it does.