Vorpal Crits

[DLichen]

You seem to think just because critical hits imply a maxed damage roll result, means that physical dice were rolled. That is not the case.

As you have pointed out, a damage roll is weapon die + bonuses.

When you get a crit, you maximize the damage roll. What does that mean? You get the maximum possible of damage die + bonuses.

There is a logical leap from getting the best results and actually rolling the physical dice to get those results. In fact, critical hits says the exact opposite. You take damage roll, and see that [2d8] is 16 damage and add it to your bonuses.

Vorpal makes no mention of damage roll, only damage die. You can get a damage roll result without rolling damage physically using dice, through determination alone. YOU ROLLED NO DICE but there is still a damage roll.

Damage Roll is a game term separate from rolling damage since it explicitly has its own section in the rules.

 

[Danceofmasks]

@gaunts of destruction

I don't want to do the math to actually find out the average damage on it, but it's still not going to do more damage on a noncrit than on a crit.

Well, without the vorpal property, gauntlets on a 2D4 weapon is simply average 3 per die rather than 2.5.
10D4 = average 30.
with a 7[W], average = 42

Then you throw in the exploding dice ..
1/3 of your D4s explode, they add an average of 3 with a recurring 1/3 chance of exploding ..
using 10D4, there will be an extra (approximately) 4.5 * 3 over 30, which is 43.5.

However, those D12s may also explode and are subject to the gauntlets' effect, so average of 6D12 is over 50.

Reckon 7[W] on a non-high-crit vorpal weapon with gauntlets > 6D12 bonus from critting.

 

[DLichen]

Being that this really only affects glaives, I don't think this whole thing is worth the uproar.

Houserule it if necessary, but the RAW is clear.

 

[Andur]

You seem to think just because critical hits imply a maxed damage roll result, means that physical dice were rolled. That is not the case.

And you seem to think that you can magically get an 8 damage with a longsword without a 1d8 to determine damage. 8 is the maximum damage a longsword can do by itself. You don't have to physically roll anything in the game, you can use a random number generator with constraints and get legitimate dice rolls, and when you tell the program to maximize it, it treats it as if it had "rolled" an 8.

Maximum damage without a variable reference is not maximum damage.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Hey, I'm in the you don't get rerolls on the [W]s camp, I just think it's funny.
Also affects scythes, btw ... simple weapon that can be vorpal.
Silly, but some clerics might use it for fluff reasons .. but then clerics don't have many uber #[W] attacks.

edit: I take it back. Apparently they get a 6[W] and a 7[W] attack.

 

[DLichen]

And you seem to think that you can magically get an 8 damage with a longsword without a 1d8 to determine damage. 8 is the maximum damage a longsword can do by itself. You don't have to physically roll anything in the game, you can use a random number generator with constraints and get legitimate dice rolls, and when you tell the program to maximize it, it treats it as if it had "rolled" an 8.

Maximum damage without a variable reference is not maximum damage.

A variable reference does not mean dice is rolled. The max on a 1d8 is 8, you clearly don't need to roll the dice. The fact that there is a dice 1d8 is enough of a reference.

When something clearly says "Do not roll" it means roll the dice right?

 

[DLichen]

Hey, I'm in the you don't get rerolls on the [W]s camp, I just think it's funny.
Also affects scythes, btw ... simple weapon that can be vorpal.
Silly, but some clerics might use it for fluff reasons .. but then clerics don't have many uber #[W] attacks.

edit: I take it back. Apparently they get a 6[W] and a 7[W] attack.

Haha, poor scythe clerics.

If anybody deserves a houserule, it's those poor guys.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Haha, poor scythe clerics.

If anybody deserves a houserule, it's those poor guys.

No, no .. I don't think they do ...
"Godstrike!"
"Your God seems to have spoken, and given you a crit!"
"But .. I do less damage this way!"
"Your God seems to have spoken, and reckons you should have taken Weapon Proficiency (Falchion)!"

 

[Vempyre]

I don't get why many of you guys purposefully ignore that bit of text in the book while debating vorpal weapons criticals :

Maximum Damage: Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum damage you can roll

It is a clear case of ppl ignoring a bit of text that goes against what they "think" is right even though they are trying to debate "RAW". So all arguments that are based on "rolling" the criticals are moot because the criticals are not rolls, even though we do add bonus dmg to it like feats n such, unlike ongoing dmg or fixed dmg like cleave.

Rather than :
-adverb
rather than, instead of
Tutoring is provided by older students rather than teachers. Rather than complain, you should try to make changes.

Now if you want to make the vorpal weapon even more dangerous than written and do MAX+ROLL+EXTRA CRIT DICE instead of MAX+EXTRA CRIT DICE, go ahead. I am not the DM who will have to cope with a weapon more dangerous than it's intended lvl anyway so knock yourselves out.

 

[DLichen]

I don't get why many of you guys purposefully ignore that bit of text in the book while debating vorpal weapons criticals :



It is a clear case of ppl ignoring a bit of text that goes against what they "think" is right even though they are trying to debate "RAW". So all arguments that are based on "rolling" the criticals are moot because the criticals are not rolls, even though we do add bonus dmg to it like feats n such, unlike ongoing dmg or fixed dmg like cleave.

Rather than :
-adverb
rather than, instead of
Tutoring is provided by older students rather than teachers. Rather than complain, you should try to make changes.

Did you just define a phrase with the same phrase?

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