Vorpal Vs Fortification
- Thread starter Majere
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UltimaGabe
First Post
Oscar carramiñana said:
Actually... I beg to differ. Creatures immune to critical hits still get their heads cut off by a vorpal weapon- they simply aren't affected by it most of the time. A vampire, for example, would still be killed by a Vorpal weapon, even though he's undead. The only reason that constructs and undead don't need to fear a Vorpal weapon is that generally, they don't need their heads to live.
So your head would still be cut off if you got hit by a Vorpal sword with Heavy Fortification, you just wouldn't take any extra damage from the crit. (Not that it would matter, of course.)
DragonShadow
First Post
I still don't agree with the whole "negate doesn't negate" thing. Being immune to criticals doesn't negate the critical effects, that I can easily and readily agree with, but the fortification is designed to make the critical go away as if it never happened.
Flaming Burst isn't an effect onto the target creature, it has only to do with the weapon itself. When the weapon criticals, it suddenly explodes with fire and deals extra flame damage because of that. Of course, the hit from the weapon itself wouldn't deal extra damage, but the flame damage is still larger because the weapon is a fiery weapon of flamey-death.
A vorpal weapon would have to get through the fortification to actually be able to have the head popping effect. Meaning that, upon successful negation of the critical hit (depending on the type of fortification) you negate the vorpal effect as well.
At least,that's how I'm seeing it.
Flaming Burst isn't an effect onto the target creature, it has only to do with the weapon itself. When the weapon criticals, it suddenly explodes with fire and deals extra flame damage because of that. Of course, the hit from the weapon itself wouldn't deal extra damage, but the flame damage is still larger because the weapon is a fiery weapon of flamey-death.
A vorpal weapon would have to get through the fortification to actually be able to have the head popping effect. Meaning that, upon successful negation of the critical hit (depending on the type of fortification) you negate the vorpal effect as well.
At least,that's how I'm seeing it.
UltimaGabe
First Post
DragonShadow said:
The problem, of course, is that nothing negates the head-severing ability of a Vorpal weapon. Even if a creature is immune to critical hits and sneak attacks, its head is still severed by a Vorpal sword- the only difference is that most things immune to critical hits can survive without a head.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
UltimaGabe said:
But the point is that Fortification doesn't, as written, make you immune to criticals... it makes the critical never happen at all. And if the critical never happens, Vorpal doesn't trigger.
-Hyp.
DragonShadow
First Post
Hypersmurf said:
Thank you.
Amberthorne
First Post
Stepping in here. Sorry if this offends.
The 3.0 book states :
This suit of armor or shield produces a magical force that protects vital areas of the wearer more effectively. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the wearer, there is a chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is rolled normally.
The 3.5 SRD states the same.
Vorpral states that a critical strike must rolled to verify.
As a GM I would rule that the vorpral effect is stopped.
The Icy burst and firey burst would be ruled as activating on the standard crit range of what ever weapon is used since they do not require the verifier.
The 3.0 book states :
This suit of armor or shield produces a magical force that protects vital areas of the wearer more effectively. When a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the wearer, there is a chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is rolled normally.
The 3.5 SRD states the same.
Vorpral states that a critical strike must rolled to verify.
As a GM I would rule that the vorpral effect is stopped.
The Icy burst and firey burst would be ruled as activating on the standard crit range of what ever weapon is used since they do not require the verifier.
re
By the rules, I agree that vorpal and other critical triggered effects don't work.
Given that I get the gist of what they were trying to do with fortification armor, I would rule that they work.
The reason they didn't use immune to critical hits is because they have varying levels of fortification based on a percentage. Stating that light fortification gives 20% immunity to critical hits didn't sound right to the designer, so they chose the word negate.
Now, literalists want to hold the designers to the word negatr, rather than accepting that it was a poor choice of words. More than likely the use of the world negate was not intended to eliminate the complete effect of a critical hit, only provide a means by which PC's could obtain some immunity to critical hits and similar types of damage such as sneak attack similar to undead and other creatures immune to criticals.
It's about interpretation and what you want for your game.
By the rules, I agree that vorpal and other critical triggered effects don't work.
Given that I get the gist of what they were trying to do with fortification armor, I would rule that they work.
The reason they didn't use immune to critical hits is because they have varying levels of fortification based on a percentage. Stating that light fortification gives 20% immunity to critical hits didn't sound right to the designer, so they chose the word negate.
Now, literalists want to hold the designers to the word negatr, rather than accepting that it was a poor choice of words. More than likely the use of the world negate was not intended to eliminate the complete effect of a critical hit, only provide a means by which PC's could obtain some immunity to critical hits and similar types of damage such as sneak attack similar to undead and other creatures immune to criticals.
It's about interpretation and what you want for your game.
