D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.

[Flamestrike]

Vecna does get two more cracks at Egar if he wants to take them: Once with an opportunity attack, and once by throwing the dagger. But his chances of breaking concentration that way, while not quite zero, are absurdly low.


Antimagic field specifically states that teleportation and planar travel do not work.

Ah yes. I missed that.

 

[Flamestrike]

After Vecna teleports from the 1st hit, the Fighter moves 30 feet to the side and now can target Vecna. Maybe some cover, but he will still get in his other hits.

Depends where Vecna teleports to.

Can we not assume he's Scryed the PCs and has some knowledge of their capabilities?

 

[FitzTheRuke]

BTW, I'm fine with us pushing forward until he either escapes or dies. I'll pass out torches and try to set him on fire.

 

[Flamestrike]

Last attempt then I'm done.

You're STILL arguing about regular Counterepell not Vecna's ability. Not all reactions require knowledge beforehand. Shield, for example, can be cast after you know you've been hit, no anticipation required. Vecna's ability can work the same way.

No, Im not. Its the rule for ALL reactions taken from the PHB. The trigger for your reaction, must be a perceivable circumstance.

Someone else thinking something doesnt qualify as a trigger. You need to know the trigger is happening to take your reaction.

It's like if your reaction trigger is 'When the Rogue drinks a potion, I cast a spell'. If the Rogue drinks a potion while Hiding from you, your reaction doesnt trigger.

Requirements:

1. Vecna must be able to see the target;

2. The target must be casting a spell. (Notice no requirement that Vecna know the dork is bring cast, it's NOT there)

The requirement comes from the rule for reactions generally in the PHB. A reaction can only trigger on a perceivable event.

Vecna doesnt know his opponent is casting a spell. So he cant use his reaction to counter it.

If he had some means of knowing (an active Detect Magic, or Read Thoughts for example) we could talk.

If both are true Vecna can dread Counterepell, just like if a wizard is hit, he can cast shield.

No, it's only if Vecna knows both are true. Vecna only knows 1 of those preconditions are met (a creature I can see). He doesnt know the second one is met (he's casting a spell) so he cant Dread Counter it.

You know when you've been hit with an attack. If your trigger for a reaction is something you dont know is occurring, you cant trigger a reaction to it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

BTW, I'm fine with us pushing forward until he either escapes or dies. I'll pass out torches and try to set him on fire.

Cool. Once I hear from Smythe I run stuff out (since I have time tonight...).

 

[FitzTheRuke]

No, it's only if Vecna knows both are true. Vecna only knows 1 of those preconditions are met (a creature I can see). He doesnt know the second one is met (he's casting a spell) so he cant Dread Counter it.

I take it you've decided to just ignore any possible explanation for how he could know a spell is being cast? Or that the wording implies that he doesn't even need to know, it just has to be a thing that is happening?

It's perfectly fine for you to want to rule it that way, of course, but I'm not sure why you want to insist that everyone has to.

 

[Flamestrike]

I take it you've decided to just ignore any possible explanation for how he could know a spell is being cast?

No, I even provided some examples of how he could know (Detect Magic, or Read Thoughts).

Go back and read.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

No, I even provided some examples of how he could know (Detect Magic, or Read Thoughts).

Go back and read.

Right. But you've decided that he needs those, while his stat block tells you that he doesn't. (I've provided some fluff to explain that, but I guess it's not good enough for you).

Again, that's totally fine. The only thing I don't understand is why you seem to be implying that it's not okay to rule it differently than you would.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Jumping quickly into this Counterspell debate:

Both have identical phrases: to interrupt a creature + (he/you) see + casting a spell.

Even phrases such as "in the process of" and "that is" are equivalent, even if not identical.

The ONLY real difference I see it that Dread Counterspell doesn't seem to actually be spell, so it can't be counterspelled it seems.

 

[Flamestrike]

Right. But you've decided that he needs those, while his stat block tells you that he doesn't. (I've provided some fluff to explain that, but I guess it's not good enough for you).

I have zero issue with a DM fluffing Vecna as having some kind of unwritten ability to -know- when someone he can see is casting a spell (even when there is no indication the creature is casting a spell, on account of there being no components involved and the caster simply having to think about the spell).

For example:

''Vecna can sense the ebbs and flows of magic. He always knows when a creature he can see is casting a spell, even if that spell lacks any components and is done purely by thought'.

I'm just saying that -as written- he doesnt have that ability. He can ID a spell as its being cast with perfect accuracy (and zero action usage), but he still needs to know a spell is being cast, and he can counter a spell as it's being cast but he still needs to know a spell is being cast.

I'd be inclined to give him the above ability, while also having a nearby (hidden) minion with Warding Bond cast on Vecna, and also giving him Shield (at will) and decking him out in appropriate magical gear.