D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.

[DND_Reborn]

(Dominated) Invulnar's Turn:

Invulnar casts quickened, empowered Scorching Ray (8th) level as 9 shafts of fire burst towards Broodhuz like machine-gun fire! 8 rays HIT (13,20,12,10,25,27,16,17,22 totals) for 62 fire damage (59 empowered to 68 after rerolling 5 dice, resistance -6)... or 34 fire damage (half of 68) if ruling is resistance to all).

Staggering from the rays, Brrodhuz topples as the empowered Sunbeam hits squarely in his chest (failed save, 3+7=10 vs. DC 18), dealing 39 radiant damage (19 empowered to 39 after rerolling 4 dice).

As he falls into unconsciousness, the last sounds Broodhuz hears is Vecna's clapping and laughter.... (fade to black).

CURRENT HIT POINTS:

VECNA: 59 / 272 (-12, UPDATE: Broodhuz hit Vecna with 3 greatsword attacks and I forgot about the rage damage... silly me)
Go'ban: 0 / 132 (-105)
Morcolt: 0 / 131 (-52)
Broodhuz: 0 / 149 (-101)
Invulnar: 150 / 162

It is now Vecna's Turn. (Epilogue)

Vecna turns to Invulnar, "Oh, if only I could keep you as powerful as you are... but alas I cannot. None who dare challenge me can be allowed to live. But fear not, you will all serve me in undeath as zombies."

Vecna assumes control of Invulnar, learning of all his spells and metamagics, and expends them all--leaving Invulnar virtually defenseless. He uses Vile Teleport a few times, replenishing his hit points as he injures Invulnar. He then stabs Invulnar repeatedly with Afterthought... allowing the magic of the dagger to slowly deplete Invulnar of his life. As Invulnar crumbles to the ground, dead, Venca strides back to Go'ban.

"The first to fall shall be the first to rise--to serve me eternally."

Venca is fully healed. He used Invisibility once and Dominate Monster for spells, but nothing else.

END OF BATTLE #2. Score 1-1.

 

[DND_Reborn]

CONCLUSION:

I think against a non-optimized Vecna-slaying party, Vecna works fairly well.

The Rotten Fate/Afterthought stabby-stabby combo is powerful for finishing off a foe. I think Rotten Fate would be better if the requirement was reducing a creature to 0 hp instead of killing them, due to death saves making that hard to do in a fight. I don't see Flight of the Damned as very useful TBH. It is low damage, and the frightened condition disadvantage isn't great with Vecna's (sort of) low AC. Against peons/minions it is good, but as a combat feature (instead of story) I see little value. It is unlikely he will reduce a couple or more PCs to low enough hp all at the same time to make it viable.

A few different spell choices, including shield as a reaction, and some non-magical physical abilities (to counter antimagic field) would help him even against tier 4 parties. Perhaps with lair actions he might fair better even with any changes.

I don't see much point in running the lower-level scenarios. Even optimized and with some experience running Vecna now, I think he would win those battles. But, if anyone wants to try, let me know and we can still do it.

 

[Stalker0]

I do think a 12th level party could beat Vecna if it was more optimized towards beating him. Like maybe a Paladin and a few big damage archer types, but I don’t know if that’s worth showing. Ultimately like many important fights it comes down to that initial round, if a party Knows about Vecna teleport heal and can counter it (like with chill touch), then I think Vecna can easily drop in the second round. But if he gets a little time as we saw here, the fight can go badly very quickly.

I think flight of the damned is probably worth as an opening move jd there isn’t a good dominate target, as it softens the group up and get them into rotten fate territory, otherwise I wouldn’t rant to cast rotten fate on a fresh group.

 

[Stalker0]

One thing that this last round shows, is that Vecna is very optimized against a single caster (casting actual spells, as our warlock used smites). With a large number of legendary resistances and his amazing counterspell, I wasn't able to do a lot against him. I think its a scenario though if you have no caster, or a number of casters (who can get through his reactions and finally get some spells off) then he's a lot more vulnerable.

I do like the idea of giving him shield, even if its just 1/day. I think that rounds him out a bit, prevents an alpha strike, gives him just a little chance to get his mojo going (which is pretty strong). Otherwise, I think he's just too reliant on his teleport for durability.

The domination in our case proved to be exceptionally strong, but I think that was a particular weakness of our group (well me at least). Even with a +2 to the save I would least have a chance to break out (and now with advantage on the save + saves when I'm damaged) there is a chance to get out. Also parties with big single strikes might have been able to break Vecna's concentration.

 

[Sulicius]

It was wonderful to watch this unfold, I'd love to see a rematch in any form. Thank you all so much for taking the time to go through it. I love how there was even some great roleplay added.

If the party had some level-acceptable magic items, they might have stood a chance. +1 armors or weapons, even potions and other one-use items could have gone a long way if their specific use was effective against Vecna. Would it be worth it to try and gear up a party? If so, the Book of Vile Darkness should definitely be a thing, and I've already looked at the most Vecna-favourable options from the random properties.

• While attuned to the artifact, you have disadvantage on saving throws against poison
• While attuned to the artifact, all holy water within 10 feet of you is destroyed.
• While you are attuned to the artifact, other creatures can't take short or long rests while within 300 feet of you.
• - The artifact dilutes magic potions within 10 feet of it, rendering them nonmagical.
• - The artifact erases magic scrolls within 10 feet of it, rendering them nonmagical.
• While attuned to the artifact, you gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class.
• While attuned to the artifact, you have resistance against one damage type of the DM's choice. (Piercing or maybe radiant, I’d say)
• While attuned to the artifact, you can use an action to cast one 1st/2nd/3rd-level spell (chosen by the DM) from it. After you cast the spell, roll a d6. On a roll of 1-5, you can't cast it again until the next dawn. (mirror image?)
• + While attuned to the artifact, one of your ability scores (DM's choice) increases by 2, to a maximum of 24. OR While attuned to the artifact, you can use an action to cast one 4th/5th/6th/7th-level spell (chosen by the DM) from it. After you cast the spell, roll a d6. On a roll of 1-5, you can't cast it again until the next dawn.(Freedom of Movement? Fire Shield? Forcecage? Contingency? Simulacrum?)

Honestly, I wouldn't give him the shield spell. I'd rather use the book to give him +3 AC (+2DEX x2 and +1 AC) instead of using his reactions to cast a spell the players have seen cast from level 1 to level 20. I really dislike how powerful and centralizing in play the shield spell is...

As a DM, I really do not like the "ready an action to release it so I can't be countered" tactic. It feels against the intentions of the game, and grants the PC's another advantage Vecna doesn't have because he'd lose out on attacking with Afterthought.

I will be testing Vecna tonight, but only against a party of 3. They are kitted out with artifacts and countless other items, as they were my players who hit 20 recently. I will be running him in a countdown dungeon: scour the place looking for advantages, Vecna arrives after 1 1/2 hours! If they do not find the items, Vecna will get some buffs, like the Hand of Vecna, The Book of Vile Darkness, max rolled HP and a Boneclaw buddy. Should be interesting!

 

[Stalker0]

As a DM, I really do not like the "ready an action to release it so I can't be countered" tactic. It feels against the intentions of the game, and grants the PC's another advantage Vecna doesn't have because he'd lose out on attacking with Afterthought.

Its an interesting debate point I've been having myself. On the one hand, I think counterspell is way too powerful normally, so anything that nerfs it is a good idea in my book. Also, readying a spell like that does consume concentration, and concentration is a precious, precious commodity, so you are paying for the privilege.

On the other....it does feel pretty cheesy, I don't like the "mouthfeel" of it.

 

[MarkB]

Its an interesting debate point I've been having myself. On the one hand, I think counterspell is way too powerful normally, so anything that nerfs it is a good idea in my book. Also, readying a spell like that does consume concentration, and concentration is a precious, precious commodity, so you are paying for the privilege.

It also consumes your reaction, which can be just as precious.

On the other....it does feel pretty cheesy, I don't like the "mouthfeel" of it.

But yeah, I'm with you on that - it's a very cheesy and meta way to get around a particular spell's phrasing.

 

[MarkB]

I do feel like Vecna could be set up a lot better to play to his strengths.

His 120-foot Truesight, letting him see perfectly through magical darkness and illusions, is a powerful ability - so he should be weaponising it, routinely be filling his lair with magical darkness and illusions to confuse his enemies.

He's immune to non-magical physical damage, so rig plenty of indiscriminate area-blasting mechanisms spraying non-magical blades and darts around that he can easily activate when he's expecting company.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I do feel like Vecna could be set up a lot better to play to his strengths.

His 120-foot Truesight, letting him see perfectly through magical darkness and illusions, is a powerful ability - so he should be weaponising it, routinely be filling his lair with magical darkness and illusions to confuse his enemies.

He's immune to non-magical physical damage, so rig plenty of indiscriminate area-blasting mechanisms spraying non-magical blades and darts around that he can easily activate when he's expecting company.

OOoh. I like the idea of his lair being loaded with non-magic traps!

POINT OF ORDER / RULING NEEDED:

I figured Broodhuz would use resistance. So, here is the issue and the feature for reference:

View attachment 252281

It provides resistance to "that instance of damage." Since scorching ray fires separate rays, I would think each rays, rolled individually for damage, would be an "instance".

I hadn't noticed that when I took/used it, but in my mind it definitely would only give him resistance to the first ray. Woops! (Didn't matter in the end anyway).

 

[Stalker0]

I do feel like Vecna could be set up a lot better to play to his strengths.

His 120-foot Truesight, letting him see perfectly through magical darkness and illusions, is a powerful ability - so he should be weaponising it, routinely be filling his lair with magical darkness and illusions to confuse his enemies.

He's immune to non-magical physical damage, so rig plenty of indiscriminate area-blasting mechanisms spraying non-magical blades and darts around that he can easily activate when he's expecting company.

I find this a constant argument in monster design, how much of a monsters power should be “baked in” to the monster itself, versus through things like lair effects.

I do think 5e has shifted more towards lairs, mainly because high level monsters now longer have the power of old 3e magic to buff them into the stratosphere. Aka a boss has to be smarter about their defenses to guard against groups of enemies, rather than just being so awesome that win regardless.