D&D 5E Vs Vecna battle simulations.

[Flamestrike]

He's giving you an average.

No, he's NOT.

He's applying the full damage from 2 x Arcane shot attacks, presuming two hits.


While the odds are (presuming Action surge and 8 shots at a 50 percent hit chance or so) are that roughly 4 attacks hit, it's not totally improbable that only 1 attack hits, or no attacks hit. Unless the odds are 100 percent that at least 2 attacks hit, you cant apply 100 percent of the Arcane shot damage to the final DPR.

 

[Mistwell]

He is wrong. The average damage is 132.5, not 149. Lucky doesn't apply to the math the way it works and Arcane Shot is once per turn. Action surge gives another action, not an turn, so no additional arcane shot. He applied it twice.

The two fighters would have a 45.7% to defeat Vecna in the simulation he ran.

I'm not going to keep doing this. If you want to challenge him, go do it to him. I let him know about these responses in general but this back and forth...well...it's Father's Day and I have better things to do than stand between you guys in an argument about this sort of stuff

 

[Charlaquin]

Gotcha. So it's that you disagree that the wording of his counterspell implies that he doesn't need to know. "Vecna utters a dread word to interrupt a creature he can see that is casting a spell" (Which suggests that the creature just needs to be doing it, not that he needs to see the VSM as it happens).

To do that, he needs to utter a dread word. If he doesn’t know the creature is casting a spell, how does he know to say the dread word?

 

[Charlaquin]

If I were to run the encounter for High Level PCs, Id certainly have Kas with Vecna (this is pre Vecna's hand being cut off remember).

A Vampire Oathbreaker Paladin type, with Warding Bond cast on Vecna, and wielding (a lesser version) of his Sword.

That would be rad!

 

[Mort]

To do that, he needs to utter a dread word. If he doesn’t know the creature is casting a spell, how does he know to say the dread word?

Because he's Vecna and he just does.

Easiest way to read and reconcile the ability.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

A PC doesnt magically gain the ability to read minds when he readies an action to 'attack the first creature that thinks about harming me'.

No of course, but in spite of the way it feels, D&D characters (and monsters) aren't just standing around doing nothing until they suddenly decide to rapidly do things. There's prep-work involved, and effort. I think it's fair to say "I ready x for a guy who is going to attack me" and do it when the guy attacks you. If the rules allow (in 5e they don't, but IIRC they used to interrupt) your reaction to go first, then it implies that you can tell what they're about to do. I know that experienced fighters can often predict when they are about to be attacked by "tells". I can imagine Vecna spotting "tells" for spells, if you'll pardon the rhyme.

I guess ultimately I just don't buy the idea that "No VSM" means "No spellcasting tells".

But I understand your general meaning for reaction triggers needing to be clearly defined as something that the acting character choses to do upon receiving the information of the trigger.

 

[Flamestrike]

Because he's Vecna and he just does.

Where is that specified?

You're trying to infer that the ability somehow grants him the ability to -unerringly know- when a creature is casting a spell.

I dont see that inference in his ability at all.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

To do that, he needs to utter a dread word. If he doesn’t know the creature is casting a spell, how does he know to say the dread word?

Well, as I said, I don't particularly agree that "no VSM" means "can't tell a spell is being cast" - I mean, OBVIOUSLY it would be harder to tell, but this is Vecna we're talking about!

 

[Charlaquin]

Because he's Vecna and he just does.

Easiest way to read and reconcile the ability.

Ok, but you agree that he would need to know a spell is being cast in order to use this reaction? I don’t know about @Flamestrike but personally I’d be much more satisfied agreeing to disagree about whether or not he knows a spell is being cast than about whether or not he can react to an event he has know knowledge of.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Where is that specified?

You're trying to infer that the ability somehow grants him the ability to -unerringly know- when a creature is casting a spell.

I dont see that inference in his ability at all.

Well, again, that comes from the wording of the trigger. He reacts to a creature he can see that is casting a spell, not a creature he can see casting a spell. Some argue that those are the same thing, but others argue they are not.

I personally would reconcile the difference by saying that he DOES know, whether most other people would know or not.