[VTT] Going Back to VTT Instead of Live Play

[TheSword]

I still keep my monthly F2F weekend of gaming with its 6 hour round trip. I can’t imagine giving it up.

However, VTT has allowed regular weekly games with people I’d never otherwise get to play with. Also…

• VTT is perfect for teaching new players with chat box spell descriptions, call out boxes, integrated online compendiums of options, and character builders.
• Improved intrigue with instant whisper function - including sharing handouts with key figures, controlling player vision and information access
• Easier note keeping and prep.
• Easier handouts, beautiful handouts, stunning handouts.
• Grid/map based play is much much much easier.
• Dynamic lighting has revolutionized exploration for me. I even use it projected onto a wide screen TV for F2F now.
• Faster NPC prep able to copy, paste and alter an NPC or monster in seconds, sometime on the fly.

The only downside I can see is that it needs an internet connection of substance and requires more prep. But I enjoy the prep so have no issue with it.

There’s also the sheer convenience of online play. I use discord on my phone for sound and roll20 for the VTT. It has totally removed any connection/lag issues.

If I’m caught late at work on game nights, instead of canceling I enter discord on speaker on the way home while we’re doing the catch up chat. Get in and login the laptop, start the game, but can make a cup of tea or a sandwich as we’re playing without any interruption. Breaks tend to be the 5 mins we intend them to be instead of the 15 mins in face to face. If someone grabs a glass of water play continues as they can still hear everything that’s happening.

Essentially, I would say I get about a third more done in each online session than the equivalent face to face time.

 

[Whaleman]

I can see why some people are all in on VTT but I find it has issues. I run 3 games in VTT currently one of which transitioned from in person. Firstly I admit I really enjoy the social aspect of meeting up with friends talking and sharing together. To the people mentioning facial queues I agree 100% that they help me as a DM to gauge players. I like the ease of access VTT offers and I would definitely not be running so many games if they were all in person. That said I much prefer in person.

First off I did way less prep in person. We have plenty of cool models, terrain and battle maps for in person. Whenever combat starts I can easily whip something up based off the scenario with little to know pre planning. I tend to only really plan the skeleton of my sessions. I struggle with this for VTT where I always feel like I need to find a pretty map and add lighting to it. If I want to whip out an npc the way the VTT sets it up (Roll20) it wants me to have a NPC character sheet pre planned with all their stats and abilities set up. If I can up with someone on the fly or need to roll for a smaller character I have to type in a dang command line.

My players really struggle talking over each other. With discord and roll20 there is no way to see that someone wants to talk without them just talking. We often end up with people talking over each other especially in high stress scenarios and its not really their fault as with the inherit delay they won't realize till they already started talking.

I think cost is underestimated here. For my players at the table all they needed was to show up but online they need decent internet, a nice mic and a decent computer. Several of the players I have seen transition during the pandemic have struggled with having none of those things. The super cool lighting isn't as cool when it is causing massive lag and breaking the game.

Finally I see a lot of distraction. First off with people at home I find a lot of players walk away from their computer (some to smoke or others to get food etc.) this leads to them never being ready when they need to make a roll. Other players are multitasking including checking email, reading or playing video games during session and lose track of whats going on. At least at the table I could call them out if they were getting to distracted or not paying attention.

I have experienced this problem with many different groups of varying ages and experience levels. All of that said though I still use VTT and don't intend to stop but I dearly hope that I can return safely to the table soon.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I can see why some people are all in on VTT but I find it has issues. I run 3 games in VTT currently one of which transitioned from in person. Firstly I admit I really enjoy the social aspect of meeting up with friends talking and sharing together. To the people mentioning facial queues I agree 100% that they help me as a DM to gauge players. I like the ease of access VTT offers and I would definitely not be running so many games if they were all in person. That said I much prefer in person.

First off I did way less prep in person. We have plenty of cool models, terrain and battle maps for in person. Whenever combat starts I can easily whip something up based off the scenario with little to know pre planning. I tend to only really plan the skeleton of my sessions. I struggle with this for VTT where I always feel like I need to find a pretty map and add lighting to it. If I want to whip out an npc the way the VTT sets it up (Roll20) it wants me to have a NPC character sheet pre planned with all their stats and abilities set up. If I can up with someone on the fly or need to roll for a smaller character I have to type in a dang command line.

My players really struggle talking over each other. With discord and roll20 there is no way to see that someone wants to talk without them just talking. We often end up with people talking over each other especially in high stress scenarios and its not really their fault as with the inherit delay they won't realize till they already started talking.

I think cost is underestimated here. For my players at the table all they needed was to show up but online they need decent internet, a nice mic and a decent computer. Several of the players I have seen transition during the pandemic have struggled with having none of those things. The super cool lighting isn't as cool when it is causing massive lag and breaking the game.

Finally I see a lot of distraction. First off with people at home I find a lot of players walk away from their computer (some to smoke or others to get food etc.) this leads to them never being ready when they need to make a roll. Other players are multitasking including checking email, reading or playing video games during session and lose track of whats going on. At least at the table I could call them out if they were getting to distracted or not paying attention.

I have experienced this problem with many different groups of varying ages and experience levels. All of that said though I still use VTT and don't intend to stop but I dearly hope that I can return safely to the table soon.

This is a clear example of a need to vet players specifically for online, and to make heavy use of YouTube and on-sight resources for Roll20.

Not all tabletop gamers can cut it online.

 

[TheSword]

I can see why some people are all in on VTT but I find it has issues. I run 3 games in VTT currently one of which transitioned from in person. Firstly I admit I really enjoy the social aspect of meeting up with friends talking and sharing together. To the people mentioning facial queues I agree 100% that they help me as a DM to gauge players. I like the ease of access VTT offers and I would definitely not be running so many games if they were all in person. That said I much prefer in person.

First off I did way less prep in person. We have plenty of cool models, terrain and battle maps for in person. Whenever combat starts I can easily whip something up based off the scenario with little to know pre planning. I tend to only really plan the skeleton of my sessions. I struggle with this for VTT where I always feel like I need to find a pretty map and add lighting to it. If I want to whip out an npc the way the VTT sets it up (Roll20) it wants me to have a NPC character sheet pre planned with all their stats and abilities set up. If I can up with someone on the fly or need to roll for a smaller character I have to type in a dang command line.

My players really struggle talking over each other. With discord and roll20 there is no way to see that someone wants to talk without them just talking. We often end up with people talking over each other especially in high stress scenarios and its not really their fault as with the inherit delay they won't realize till they already started talking.

I think cost is underestimated here. For my players at the table all they needed was to show up but online they need decent internet, a nice mic and a decent computer. Several of the players I have seen transition during the pandemic have struggled with having none of those things. The super cool lighting isn't as cool when it is causing massive lag and breaking the game.

Finally I see a lot of distraction. First off with people at home I find a lot of players walk away from their computer (some to smoke or others to get food etc.) this leads to them never being ready when they need to make a roll. Other players are multitasking including checking email, reading or playing video games during session and lose track of whats going on. At least at the table I could call them out if they were getting to distracted or not paying attention.

I have experienced this problem with many different groups of varying ages and experience levels. All of that said though I still use VTT and don't intend to stop but I dearly hope that I can return safely to the table soon.

You can still call people out when they aren’t ready for their go. They’re either ready or they aren’t. That’s a respect issue and not really linked to VTT.

I also found switching the comms element to Discord not only gave me more space on the VTT it massively improved performance. I’ve found groups over 5 also starts to become problematic.

Just some advice as you said you were still doing VTT.

 

[Whaleman]

As to vetting players for online the problem is that these people are my friends (again to me this is every bit about the social aspect as much as the game). I played with them in person before the pandemic. It feels messed up to tell them no you cannot keep playing with us while we are playing online but we are going to keep playing. Of course I make use of heavy youtube resources to make maps. I can punch out maps much faster adding the lighting to them now. I still have to find the art for the map and I still have to add the lighting. For NPCs I still have to either type in for the roll or create an entire sheet for them where before I could simply roll a d20 knowing the mod. My NPCs before were mostly the important bits and not fully sheets or I would just use a stat sheet that seemed appropriate. To be clear I absolutely make us of the internet. I have never run a game without my laptop at hand.

I am not sure what you mean TheSword. I use Discord for all voice? I use Roll20 purely for the visual aspect. People are struggling to run either (mostly Roll20). I am not sure if you are referring to some trick with Discord. As for the number of people, I have never struggled in person to run or play in groups in person with more than 5 players. I have found it requires way more discipline and mistakes online (again people aren't trying to be rude but there is a delay and everyone's mic is different).

 

[Jd Smith1]

As to vetting players for online the problem is that these people are my friends (again to me this is every bit about the social aspect as much as the game).

Sounds like you have reached the point of conflicting expectations.

 

[Whaleman]

Sounds like you have reached the point of conflicting expectations.

I thought the discussion was about VTT vs TT. I do not think my expectations would be out of wack at a table. They are on VTT. My point is that I do not think VTT does a great approximation of tabletop or that it is better than tabletop. That is not inherently bad though it can be its own thing and can be great at it (connecting people all over is great). I just felt like this thread had a lot of people basically pushing for the sidelining or death of tabletop in favor of VTT. I would be gutted if that happened. I think there is room for both.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I wasn't specifically referring to Zweihander; I've been gaming since 1979, and it is clear to me that the 'theater of the mind' exists mainly in the ego of talkative GMs. I used a VTT for over a decade of F2F games before switching to online..

Frankly, this is exposing your ignorance, not actually making the point you seem to think is some gifted insight into play. I mean, go learn something?

For the record, I use Roll20 for my 5e game, and very much use maps and tokens and lean into the automation of the system. For that game, this makes sense. It's not very useful, and in some ways it gets in the way for Blades in the Dark, and maps there are truly pointless -- they actively go against the conception of the game. For a game like Cthulhu Dark, I just do not see any use whatsoever to needing a battlemap at all, for any real reason. It would, again, be damaging to the game to try to use one. If this sounds alien to you and you're struggling to understand it, then it's because you lack the depth of experience you think you have. VTTs and battlemats are extremely useful for some games, and not at all to harmful to others. Claiming otherwise is just ignorance.

Also for the record, I'm a huge fan of online RPGs, and have had a Roll20 premium account for 4 years and somewhere near $500 of map packs and art packs alone, which I adore. I don't even log onto Roll20 for my Blades game -- only need Discord. Use the voice channel to play, drop occasional notes and things in chat during play, and then use the chat channels for between session asynchronous upkeep and updates. More than enough. I have the Blades character sheets and asset pack for Roll20 and just found it's hampering and gets in the way.

 

[TerraDave]

I've been playing online for a bit over a year; refuse to DM online. Didn't like it to start with. Slowly got used to it, still didn't like it. Over the last few weeks technical issues* have pushed me toward thoroughly loathing it.

* - our DM recently started using dynamic lighting on roll20, which causes it to either lag horribly or crash outright on my machine; and I am not about to buy new computer hardware just for this.

Yes.

I just turn it off as DM, but it can even be hard to turn off!

I am a big roll20 fan and have used it for a long time, but certain features have actually made it harder to use.

 

[TerraDave]

I am sure that many will stick with online play as the pandemic ends.

At some point I would like to try a hybrid--some people together, some people remotely.

I do like some social aspects of gaming--actually eating and drinking while playing, otherwise I tend to be pretty focused--but also like the flexibility of online play.