Vulgar language in fantasy

[Hijinks]

How do you decide which words 'fit' into a fantasy world? And which fantasy worlds are you talking about? Middle Earth? Narnia? The Malazan Empire? Bas-Lag? The city of Interzone?

I guess I should have extended my sentence. As long as it fit the fantasy world in that particular piece of literature. If I'm reading a book set in the Middle Ages of Earth, I would not have a problem with "bugger" or another word from that time period. I would, however, have a problem with someone calling someone else a "f'ing c." It doesn't fit the period of that particular fantasy setting.

Likewise I have no problem with the characters of "Farscape" hollering "Frell!" at each other. It's a curse word that suits and fits their particular society.

Curse words are just for shock value anyway, which if I'm reading a fantasy story, gratuitous cursing just takes away from my immersion. If I'm reading a gritty crime drama, I expect it - not so much with the sorcerers and fairies.

 

[Mallus]

I would, however, have a problem with someone calling someone else a "f'ing c." It doesn't fit the period of that particular fantasy setting.

No, but I'd bet there's an analogous phrase in Middle English. Can anyone help me out here?

Likewise I have no problem with the characters of "Farscape" hollering "Frell!" at each other. It's a curse word that suits and fits their particular society.

I think the cussing on Farscape worked so well because the words used were so transparently our contemporary expletives. It wasn't an exploration of alien linguistics, it was a wink and a nod at an English-speaking audience and a clever dodge of the censors.

Curse words are just for shock value anyway...

This is true for some books, it's patently false for others. Vulgarities are handy when depicting people who really speak that way.

-not so much with the sorcerers and fairies.

Why not? Aren't they people too?

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think the cussing on Farscape worked so well because the words used were so transparently our contemporary expletives. It wasn't an exploration of alien linguistics, it was a wink and a nod at an English-speaking audience and a clever dodge of the censors.

I'm partial to Firefly's solution, myself

-Hyp.

 

[Mallus]

I'm partial to Firefly's solution, myself
-Hyp.

That was cool too, but harder on the actors, not to mention viewers that spoke Chinese.

 

[Tonguez]

Masters of vulgarity never need descend to the plebian and unsatisfying use of mere curses like s%&t or f@#$, for them even the most inoffensive word can become an obscenity fit to kill small animals and peel varnish with proper use and attention to detail

Master of Vulgarity - theres a Bard PrC in that!
The Master of Vulgarity has the supernatural ability to turn even the most inoffensive word into an obscenity that can kill small animals and peel varnish

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Master of Vulgarity - theres a Bard PrC in that!
The Master of Vulgarity has the supernatural ability to turn even the most inoffensive word into an obscenity that can kill small animals and peel varnish

The killing small animals is actually a reference to an incident at a training unit. Two of the drill sergeants(let their names be omitted) had a platoon(second platoon, not mine) down in the sandpit and were really pouring it on. Just as they reached the high point of their tirade a bird perched on the sign post next to where they was standing keeled over dead.

 

[Darth Shoju]

Heh... even without kids I can sympathize. On the plus side, it is a good album...

Speaking of irony, I'm seeing a wee bit of irony in my own posts to this thread, where I sound, well, offended that readers might be offended by vulgar language in fantasy fiction. So it goes. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's absurd to be offended by reading a crass term for excrement. I just don't understand how the act of reading literature, of any kind, is possible under those conditions. If common vulgarities are so offensive, what's a reader like that going to do when confronted with ideas that really unsettle them, or depictions of unpleasant people and events.

Mulling it over a little, I think I take offense because I hear a resistance to vulgarity in fantasy as a de facto call for fantasy to be a kind of children's literature. This gets exacerbated when people started bringing up their actual kids. Even when they aren't calling for child-proofing the world.

I dunno man, I think people are allowed to be offended at anything they want. The difference is in how they react to it; a vocal minority starting a crusade to censor fantasy literature over the f-bomb would be stupid, but people choosing not to buy something that features material they find offensive is just fine IMO. Personally it takes much more than a little vulgarity to offend me (considering how many obscenities I like to toss around), but we all have our limits. I'm guessing there is someone out there who would be amazed at what offends you.

As far as children go, I certainly will monitor and censor what my son (2 years old) is exposed to. I'll do my best to ensure I talk to him and explain the realities of life when he is old enough, and I'm guessing he'll be slowly exposed to them as he grows. But the fact is children aren't able to fully understand consequences and responsibility, so I feel it is my duty to introduce my son to the harsher concepts of life in a way that he can properly process them. Or am I an over-protective father for allowing my boy to watch Go Diego Go while keeping away The Family Guy until he's older?

As far as fantasy literature is concerned, I find that the viability of real-world vulgarity is directly dependent on the quality of the author.

 

[Tonguez]

Or am I an over-protective father for allowing my boy to watch Go Diego Go while keeping away The Family Guy until he's older?

Not at all. My son is 7, he wanted to watch Jackass, I switched the channel back to Higglytown Heroes

 

[Redrobes]

I think that if I could pick up the book in 50 years time, read it, and it would not sound jarring and out of place then I think that the text including the profanity would not present an issue. Sometimes I think that even though specific words like f & s are not 21st century, the use, especially the quantity of them, make the text sound fashionably dated to our time. When you can date the text modern then it does not fit in with a fantasy styled world.

Tonight we were discussing the recent BBC Robin Hood and how the clothing, style and make up used were out of place. Romeo & Juliet with DiCaprio & Danes. Some people liked it but I didn't. Thats the same way I feel about the use of language.

 

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Well yes and no.

I did some research a while ago and most of the evidence is that prior to the 1800s the word was not seen as entirely offensive. So although not a modern word the way it is currently used and phrased is modern slang.
Admittedly it possibly started to be used as a vulgarity around the 16th Century (and thus later than the Medievil period DnD emulates).

Prior to 1500 the word may have been a variant of Fulcher meaning soldier and to be derived from the word meaning "to strike, to penetrate" and seems to have the same root as pug~ as in pugilist

non sunt in coeli, quia fvccant vvivys of heli

I believe the modern version of the word may even have had its roots in the slang of the soldiers. But I also understand there is some evidence of older usage among the Saxons. But I'm hardly an expert on etymology.

That said, as far as I can tel from history I have access tol, it initially became a "bad" word because it was a word of the lower class, not because of its actual meaning. Same thing, as you mentioned, with the "s" word, while its literal synonym "feces" is fine for general consumption.

With the growth of the middle class, in trying to ape aristocratic norms to distance themselves from their poor (financially) peers, they rejected all that nice, earthy language. We inherited their biases. I wouldn't want my kids wandering around swearing like sailors, but at the end of the day, words are words, and we're just passing down social norms inherited from people who were trying to pretend their parents weren't poor laborers, and that they were just as refined as the old money.