Wahoo vs. Traditional

[Desdichado]

It's not, necessarily; but many DMs and players like their settings strongly grounded in reality. Looking at historical cultures can help a lot with building an internally consistent setting. It also helps to create atmosphere, by evoking shared cultural experiences among the players.

Playing D&D in a mileu that resembles "Merry Olde England" is not strongly grounded in reality. In fact, it ignores the rather obvious question of, "how in the world did society develop exactly the same way as it did in our world, except with all these different ingredients that all should have had a significant impact on the development of society?" If anything, you could almost hold out Eberron as a more "realistic" setting, because at least it tries to explain how the actual rules of the game impact the setting itself instead of divorcing the two and treating them as completely separate spheres of influence.

The existence of dragonborn as a race that can hang out in human towns and not excite comment requires setting assumptions that a lot of us find difficult to swallow. The issue is not new to 4E, of course; elves and dwarves require the same assumptions, but it's less of a bitter pill because elves and dwarves don't look like monsters.

...Did I mention how I don't like elves and dwarves either?

Yeah, but even you (I hope) will admit that that's an atypical response. Make that half-orcs... who do look like monsters, and you're in the same boat again. Why half-orcs but not dragonborn? And if dragonborn have been around in the setting for all this time, why would anyone assume that they're monstrous anyway?

Anyway, I'm not trying to argue my position, just state it and talk a bit about the issue. I'm not trying to convince you that my way is right and yours is badwrongfun or anything.

 

[Mournblade94]

I didn't say that it was. In fact, I disagree that it is, which is part of why I started this thread. I often feel like I'm the dissenting voice. When someone points out what was done in the medieval period, I'm the guy saying, "So? How is that relevent to my fantasy setting?" I'm the guy, when someone's complaining about, I dunno, say, dragnoborn being in D&D, saying, "So? How do they not fit? How are they so different from such iconic critters as mindflayers or displacer beasts that those are OK and these newer ideas are not."

Even though I am someone that does not like physically alien races, I can never imagine telling someone what is allowed in their world. If I was playing in a 4e game I would never presume to tell other players what they can and cannot play.

My problem is quite the opposite. I have gotten in arguments for not allowing races. Some players think since it is in a splat book it should be allowed. If I want to run 4e without Dragonborn that is my decision and one players must abide by if they do not want to run their own game.

 

[Dyson Logos]

I avoided your thread at CM on this topic on the basis that I can't stand the choice of terminology. "Traditional" to me isn't the opposite of "Wahoo". By your definitions, Blackmoor is Wahoo, whereas I see it as traditional. "Wahoo" has been used for years as a definition of a style of Gamma World play that is non-gritty, non-realistic, and based around a fun, loose playstyle. Omega World was the best example of this end of Wahoo Gamma World play.

I think you need to define the terms in a way that doesn't impact on what is already accepted terminology.

That aside, I like them both. I like games that use a pseudo-historical medieval environment (I'm a fan of WHFRP which I guess would fit closely to what you have listed as "Traditional"). But I also really enjoy games in more fantastic environments like Blackmoor with it's crashed spaceships and all that goodness.

 

[Desdichado]

Well, I disagree that wahoo has an accepted, clear definition. Certainly 've never heard it used as such. But if you've got a better word, I'm all ears.

 

[Mallus]

That aside, I like them both. I like games that use a pseudo-historical medieval environment (I'm a fan of WHFRP which I guess would fit closely to what you have listed as "Traditional"). But I also really enjoy games in more fantastic environments like Blackmoor with it's crashed spaceships and all that goodness.

Err, doesn't WHFRP have tons of crashed spacecraft (ie, gonzo scif-fi) in it's deep back story?

 

[Desdichado]

Err, doesn't WHFRP have tons of crashed spacecraft (ie, gonzo scif-fi) in it's deep back story?

Yeah, but it's so deep that it's questionable whether or not its even canonical.

 

[chriton227]

Well, I disagree that wahoo has an accepted, clear definition. Certainly 've never heard it used as such. But if you've got a better word, I'm all ears.

It's the first time I've heard Wahoo used in reference to RPGs too. When I first started reading the thread, I was trying to figure out what the University of Virginia fans did to deserve their own RPG style.

Regarding the original topic, I prefer more overt fantastic elements in my games (both running and playing) rather than a more "real world medieval" style. But then again, I also prefer more cinematic action and light-hearted romping over a more staid and realistic game full of political maneuvering and dire consequences. I play to blow off steam, and the farther I can get from my day-to-day life, the better.

 

[Clavis]

As a DM, I prefer the run campaigns where the Weird collides with the Mundane. I tend to start things off looking fairly ordinary and historically based, and gradually reveal the utter strangeness lurking under the surface. In my opinion, the Weird (or Wahoo) quickly becomes ordinary and just as boring as the mundane, unless it used sparingly and in contrast to the ordinary order of things.

The other reason I like to start things out more mundane is that it makes it easier for players to grasp the setting initially. If you can just tell players "think medieval Arabia" or "think Aztec" when they are making up characters, things go much faster and they play their characters more in tune with the setting's expectations. I've found that in practice, no matter how hard you try to create bizarre and unique cultures, players actually base their PCs characterizations (when they bother with them at all) on other characters from fiction, movies, or history. So, I create settings where that's possible. As they go on, the players discover that the old washerwoman is actually a shape-changing reptiloid in disguise, or that the brothel hides a doorway to the Plains of Liquid Sapphire. So there's Wahoo, but its hidden by the Traditional.

 

[Arnwyn]

Anyway, I'm not talking about things like magic prevalence, high level PCs, and superheroics, but just the nitty gritty of the setting itself; do you prefer a more traditional pseudo-Middle-earth for your setting, or do you want something more like the Star Wars cantina scene, stuffed to the gills with cheap exotica for its own sake?

Our group is a little bit more on the traditional/tolkeinish side of the spectrum than the wahoo side.

 

[alleynbard]

Anyway, I'm not talking about things like magic prevalence, high level PCs, and superheroics, but just the nitty gritty of the setting itself; do you prefer a more traditional pseudo-Middle-earth for your setting, or do you want something more like the Star Wars cantina scene, stuffed to the gills with cheap exotica for its own sake?

Its funny you should ask that because my setting really is somewhat inspired by the Republic Era of Star Wars. Only, when the republic fell there was nothing to takes it place. You can't swing a cat without hitting an odd race and humans are the rarest race on the planet.

It should be noted that planet is impossibly huge, so there is plenty of room for these races to live. It couldn't possibly exist where it does and how it does under the paradigm of physics as we know it.

I am fan of "wahoo".