Lock and key, also wireless PC ready camera. 
There is not too much you can do, you think all or none until you catch the person.
There is not too much you can do, you think all or none until you catch the person.
Wandering books and sticky fingers
- Thread starter GuardianLurker
- Start date
To ensure you are in the absolute right, verify the following:
did anyone in your household use the books?
did anyone in your household borrow the books?
do you take your books out of the house yourself (to other games)?
do other family members take your books out of the house?
When was the last time they were seen?
Assuming the answers to the above questions basically lead to nobody but you and your group uses the books, and they don't normally leave the house, you've got reasonable evidence that somebody in your group is stealing your books. Note that doesn't constitute evidence of WHO is stealing them.
You could try to catch the thief, or try to prevent further thefts. Certainly writing your name in the book makes it easy to prevent accidental book grabs (i've had my players walk off with my PHB twice by mistake, easily corrected and it was different players). The thief, short of catching him redhanded, will never bring your books to where you can check. Most likely, they'll be sold if there's a name in them, or his name will be written in them to make them his "new book from E-bay"
To catch the thief, you'll need to stay reasonably calm and not escalate the problem. You need to set a trap, and the thief has to think things are back to normal. Have some bait, new books, unlabeled around the game area, like normal. If you can, set up a camera to record. For $100 or so, X10 (yeah, those spam guys) will sell you a wireless camera rig you can hook to your VCR, that's 6 hours of taping. This would get you a reasonable chance of detecting the actual theft.
The other method, is harder to prove. If the thief takes the bait, and then returns with a story of "too bad you lost yours, but I just got one off e-bay" story, then question them. Ask them to describe how they purchased the book, how they hunted for it. Watch their eyes. Lawyers know this trick. The eyes will go to one direction while recalling an actual event, and the eyes will go the opposite side if they are fabricating the event in their mind. It is reversed for left-handers. I can't recall which direction is which, but the two points are up and left versus up and right. You should be able to run some tests with a family member. It really works, unless the subject is actively trying to avoid the natural eye action. This is different than the "look me in the eyes" treatment you usually hear. I read about this some time ago, but can't relocate the information.
Your other approach is to tell the group that you've had 4 books vanish, and that thievery is suspected. If someone says "I don't like you implying I'm a thief" you can reply, "I don't like having my stuff stolen" Now this leads to lawyer trick #2 (I am not a lawyer). Someone who is guilty, doesn't usually challenge the accusation, they challenge the evidence. An innocent person who is wrongly accused will get adamant and say "I didn't do it!" A guilty person will say "you don't have any evidence of that" This may be a psychological trait that the brain tries to avoid actual lying as much as possible. If you start getting responses like that, you've probably got your man.
Assuming you're not going to court over this, all you need is to stop the thefts and get rid of the thief. You can't justify search and siezure, you've got no right. But you do have the right to come to your own conclusions about who did it, and kick them out of your house, never to return.
Good luck,
Janx
did anyone in your household use the books?
did anyone in your household borrow the books?
do you take your books out of the house yourself (to other games)?
do other family members take your books out of the house?
When was the last time they were seen?
Assuming the answers to the above questions basically lead to nobody but you and your group uses the books, and they don't normally leave the house, you've got reasonable evidence that somebody in your group is stealing your books. Note that doesn't constitute evidence of WHO is stealing them.
You could try to catch the thief, or try to prevent further thefts. Certainly writing your name in the book makes it easy to prevent accidental book grabs (i've had my players walk off with my PHB twice by mistake, easily corrected and it was different players). The thief, short of catching him redhanded, will never bring your books to where you can check. Most likely, they'll be sold if there's a name in them, or his name will be written in them to make them his "new book from E-bay"
To catch the thief, you'll need to stay reasonably calm and not escalate the problem. You need to set a trap, and the thief has to think things are back to normal. Have some bait, new books, unlabeled around the game area, like normal. If you can, set up a camera to record. For $100 or so, X10 (yeah, those spam guys) will sell you a wireless camera rig you can hook to your VCR, that's 6 hours of taping. This would get you a reasonable chance of detecting the actual theft.
The other method, is harder to prove. If the thief takes the bait, and then returns with a story of "too bad you lost yours, but I just got one off e-bay" story, then question them. Ask them to describe how they purchased the book, how they hunted for it. Watch their eyes. Lawyers know this trick. The eyes will go to one direction while recalling an actual event, and the eyes will go the opposite side if they are fabricating the event in their mind. It is reversed for left-handers. I can't recall which direction is which, but the two points are up and left versus up and right. You should be able to run some tests with a family member. It really works, unless the subject is actively trying to avoid the natural eye action. This is different than the "look me in the eyes" treatment you usually hear. I read about this some time ago, but can't relocate the information.
Your other approach is to tell the group that you've had 4 books vanish, and that thievery is suspected. If someone says "I don't like you implying I'm a thief" you can reply, "I don't like having my stuff stolen" Now this leads to lawyer trick #2 (I am not a lawyer). Someone who is guilty, doesn't usually challenge the accusation, they challenge the evidence. An innocent person who is wrongly accused will get adamant and say "I didn't do it!" A guilty person will say "you don't have any evidence of that" This may be a psychological trait that the brain tries to avoid actual lying as much as possible. If you start getting responses like that, you've probably got your man.
Assuming you're not going to court over this, all you need is to stop the thefts and get rid of the thief. You can't justify search and siezure, you've got no right. But you do have the right to come to your own conclusions about who did it, and kick them out of your house, never to return.
Good luck,
Janx
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
I agree with the above. Write your name in your books. It isn't like this is a collection that you can sell on e-bay in 2050 and retire as a millionaire (aliens will have invaded long before then). Also, just move the books you aren't using out of the game room. Don't even revoke bookshelf privilages. Just move the D&D books out. Put 'em in an upstairs closet or something.
But make no mistake, it definately seems like someone is pilfering your books. You are showing remarkable restraint.
But make no mistake, it definately seems like someone is pilfering your books. You are showing remarkable restraint.
Qualidar
First Post
I agree with setting a trap (unless the thief is reading this thread, in which case it won't work). I'm glad this isn't my problem: I develop serious mental imblances when things are stolen from me. I'm just glad that I've never caught one of the thieves before the week long cooling down period that I require to let go of plans involving nail guns and turpentine. ![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
~Q~
~Q~
twofalls
DM Beadle
I think your ultimatim and restrictions are the wrong approach personally. If I were in your group, I'd understand, but wouldn't be able to help feel a little put off by the "don't touch my books at all" approach. Instead I'd tell the group exactly what you put into this thread on Enworld. Tell them that they are your players and your friends and that you don't feel comfortable accusing anyone as a theif, but the facts remain that you are missing books after these game sessions and its hurting your heart to think that someone is taking them. What other logical conclusion can you come to? Ask them what you should do about it. If they suggest that your books simply not be touched then instead of you giving them an ultimatum its them deciding what needs to be done. Instead of telling them that you will disband the group (which frankly would go over like a brick in a pond with me) ask them for ideas and help with the situation. Ultimatums rarely get you where you want to be. If after talking to them they are unresponsive, or unable to come up with any ideas, tell them that you are at a point where you would rather stop playing than feel constantly disrespected by whomever is taking liberties and walking with your books. Maybe the person who is taking them feels that you can afford them and he can't, let them know that its the issue of respect not economics that's the problem. Stealing is just plain wrong, insulting, and most of all destroys trust.
I sign my name on the inside cover of all of my books in ink. I do this not to avoid theft, but to easily identify who's copy belongs to who. I have thousands of game books and over 300 D20 books, and my players borrow them all the time. My players also generously add books to the collection so fortunatly I've not had to deal with your situation specifically before.
I hope this helps, and I hope your group has respect enough for each other to deal with this nasty situation.
Edit: With all due respect to the above posters, setting a trap, or going to other lengths to "catch" the theif isn't really overall in the game group's best interest. Small groups are built on trust, when someone breaks that trust the group will fracture and it's up to the group itself to either resolve it or dissolve. Taking unilateral steps to catch the criminal, even though it might (and probably wont) result in finding the thief will do little to heal the damage done tothe group itself. I strongly feel everyone needs to be involved. How you handle this situation will be remembered and will become part of the way the others look at you as a leader. On the other hand if you goal is to simply catch the crook, no matter what it takes, then my advice might be less useful to you.
I sign my name on the inside cover of all of my books in ink. I do this not to avoid theft, but to easily identify who's copy belongs to who. I have thousands of game books and over 300 D20 books, and my players borrow them all the time. My players also generously add books to the collection so fortunatly I've not had to deal with your situation specifically before.
I hope this helps, and I hope your group has respect enough for each other to deal with this nasty situation.
Edit: With all due respect to the above posters, setting a trap, or going to other lengths to "catch" the theif isn't really overall in the game group's best interest. Small groups are built on trust, when someone breaks that trust the group will fracture and it's up to the group itself to either resolve it or dissolve. Taking unilateral steps to catch the criminal, even though it might (and probably wont) result in finding the thief will do little to heal the damage done tothe group itself. I strongly feel everyone needs to be involved. How you handle this situation will be remembered and will become part of the way the others look at you as a leader. On the other hand if you goal is to simply catch the crook, no matter what it takes, then my advice might be less useful to you.
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GuardianLurker
Adventurer
In order:
Yes - me. No - it's just me in my house. Nope - I always host. Nope - see #2. And ditto on #2 for lending to friends.
The last time I remember seeing the most recent missing book was literally the last encounter of the last game session, as I ran the monster involved from it. It was also on my desk, and *not* the general gaming table (I sit separate from my players).
Twofall, I agree with you about ultimatums (and the likely response), and that's why I started this thread, in an effort to discover so alternate approaches. Janx mentioned two that I'm likely to try next session (Saturday the 16th).
All my books *are* getting labeled - but that doesn't prevent thefts unfortunately. My Masters of the Wild was marked for instance. Surveillance isn't really an option, tempting though it is, as it would only aggravate the loss of trust issues. Ditto for bag searches/book counts.
Any ideas out there for what I should do if I can't identify the (potential) thief(s)?
Wraith Form
Explorer
Yeah, explain publicly (before/after a gaming session) that your books are being stolen and explain that, due to the immaturity of one of the players, they'll all have to buy their own darn books. Be a hard-a$$. Non-thieves will understand, they really will. Don't underestimate the empathy that the non-thieves will feel for you, and how cool they'll be if you have to be "strict". It's a sad situation, that someone is taking advantage of you after you put your hospitality out there and someone walks all over it, but there you go...GuardianLurker said:
OTOH, if you can afford the loss....if this individual needs to take the books--either he's in some financial straits or he's got a klepto streak/chemical imbalance. Either way, have pity on the poor sod. If they need 'em that badly, let 'em take the darn books. Just don't make any other new ones available.
Or, you could have a "library check-out" system, where each book has the gamer's name associated with it on a sheet...with a small deposit required per book (per person). They'll get their deposit back once they return the book.
I'd never tolerate hosting & running a game, making the books available to people out of trust, and then having someone steal. A can of whoop-arse would be quickly forthcoming.
Treebore
First Post
Another thing that keeps my books from getting taken home by someone other than me is that I put packing tape along all the edges and spine. I also use color coded page markers in a lot of my books. So my books are very distinctive, even my modules. None have ever dissappeared, and my books last a long time due to the protection of the tape.
Plus I also write my name inside both the front and back cover in big black marker and I also put my initials on specific page numbers of every book.
If you do have other people in your group who tape their books, I don't, use a color marker and color the spine with it. Using blue, red, or green will probably work well.
Also, with my current group I'm not worried about theft. We all pretty much have the same books anyway. Plus we game at one of their houses.
Plus I also write my name inside both the front and back cover in big black marker and I also put my initials on specific page numbers of every book.
If you do have other people in your group who tape their books, I don't, use a color marker and color the spine with it. Using blue, red, or green will probably work well.
Also, with my current group I'm not worried about theft. We all pretty much have the same books anyway. Plus we game at one of their houses.
There's a lot of ways to deal with the situation.
My advice is more on specific tactics to try, rather than the wisdom of those tactics. Basically, if you're goal is, catch the thief and purge him, follow my advice (and hopefully improve upon it, as it was hastily written).
I like twofall's stratefy for telling the group. While it's your house, and you are the DM, you can technically tell them whatever you want, your goal is to guide the reaction to a positive ending. Getting them to come to the same conclusion as you is ideal. So present them with the problem you're facing (somebody's stealing your books), and see what solutions become obvious to them.
On the latter part of twofalls' comments, I'm a bit more opposed. I think the police can do whatever it takes to catch a bad guy. So long as they make no mistakes and hurt and intrude upon no innocent people. That last clause is important, and is what ensures that they don't get out of hand and abridge the innocent folks' rights. This is the same situation. We're in GL-land. He's the king. Police, Judge, Jury and executioner. You're on his land. If anybody violates his laws (which tack on top of local, state and federal laws), he has the authority to deal with the situation as he pleases (so long as he himself does not violate local, state and federal laws).
My point is, if "Innocent Player A", whom we'll call IPA is going to get offended because GL performed a surveilance and sting operation on the group, to catch the thief, he's being insensitive to GL, who is the one suffering from the assault. IPA's "trust is violated" issues take a backseat, because GL's been violated by one of the group. GL takes priority because it is his house and his stuff. GL had material AND trust violated. IPA only had trust violated, and ultimately, that trust was violated by the thief, who caused GL to distrust the entire group until he could revalidate the trust in the individuals (IPA included).
I think there are reasonable measures GL can take, if he wants to catch or expose the thief. I don't think he can search people's bags. I do think he can video his book and see who takes it. He's not videoing IPA and violating his privacy. He's videoing his book and seeing who took it.
The reality is, talking to the group will get you support from IPA and such better, but it won't stop the thief. If you can't catch the thief, talk to the group and use that method. If you can catch the thief, do so. By leaving the thief in your party, you will always mistrust ALL the people in your group. If IPA can't see that, he's replaceable. I got no patience for people who coddle bad guys.
Janx
My advice is more on specific tactics to try, rather than the wisdom of those tactics. Basically, if you're goal is, catch the thief and purge him, follow my advice (and hopefully improve upon it, as it was hastily written).
I like twofall's stratefy for telling the group. While it's your house, and you are the DM, you can technically tell them whatever you want, your goal is to guide the reaction to a positive ending. Getting them to come to the same conclusion as you is ideal. So present them with the problem you're facing (somebody's stealing your books), and see what solutions become obvious to them.
On the latter part of twofalls' comments, I'm a bit more opposed. I think the police can do whatever it takes to catch a bad guy. So long as they make no mistakes and hurt and intrude upon no innocent people. That last clause is important, and is what ensures that they don't get out of hand and abridge the innocent folks' rights. This is the same situation. We're in GL-land. He's the king. Police, Judge, Jury and executioner. You're on his land. If anybody violates his laws (which tack on top of local, state and federal laws), he has the authority to deal with the situation as he pleases (so long as he himself does not violate local, state and federal laws).
My point is, if "Innocent Player A", whom we'll call IPA is going to get offended because GL performed a surveilance and sting operation on the group, to catch the thief, he's being insensitive to GL, who is the one suffering from the assault. IPA's "trust is violated" issues take a backseat, because GL's been violated by one of the group. GL takes priority because it is his house and his stuff. GL had material AND trust violated. IPA only had trust violated, and ultimately, that trust was violated by the thief, who caused GL to distrust the entire group until he could revalidate the trust in the individuals (IPA included).
I think there are reasonable measures GL can take, if he wants to catch or expose the thief. I don't think he can search people's bags. I do think he can video his book and see who takes it. He's not videoing IPA and violating his privacy. He's videoing his book and seeing who took it.
The reality is, talking to the group will get you support from IPA and such better, but it won't stop the thief. If you can't catch the thief, talk to the group and use that method. If you can catch the thief, do so. By leaving the thief in your party, you will always mistrust ALL the people in your group. If IPA can't see that, he's replaceable. I got no patience for people who coddle bad guys.
Janx
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