D&D 5E Wanting more content doesn't always equate to wanting tons of splat options so please stop.

[Warmaster Horus]

I have a feeling you're in the minority having that many characters, though. How high a level have you played them to? (For comparison, I usually DM, so I've only had the opportunity to create four PCs so far. And most of them have only been played for three or four sessions tops.)...

Absolutely. I play a lot of AL and typically have two PCs per season (1 for Hard Cover and 1 for tourney/module play). There are still TONS of character options available. But not many of them actually appeal much to me as a player. I've already created the ones that I think are cool. I'm looking for Volo's to bring a few more awesome options that cry out to me, though.

On the flip side, too many PC creation options put in play too quickly are a PITA when it comes to DMing. Too many class options and synergies to track/remember, too many books to reference, etc.

 

[MoonSong]

That is a real problem. But it is also a perception problem. It's two great tastes, combined in one! Allow me to explain.

Consider this- from the dawn of OD&D, through UA, the poor grognards were forced to play with a number of options that pale in comparison to what we have in just the base PHB today. Sure, sometimes people would spice up their play with a "For NPCs ONLY!!!!!11!!!!" Dragon-variant class (Death Master, Incantrix, Scout, etc.), but it was pretty standard stuff. And that lasted from ... wait for it ....

1974 - 1985. Heck, even toss in UA and OA (Barbarians and Samurais, oh my!) and you still get to 2e, which was more of the same for years.

But that is from before I was born? There is a thing to consider, options wear down and get old over time. And this is an interedition thing. Not a problem for a brand new player, but some of us have played for a few editions already-

It's just a different paradigm. The difference, IMO, is that so much effort is put into character creation now. Don't get me wrong- character creation always used to be important; but it used to take up, what, 5-10 minutes ... followed by a lot of actual gaming. Now, character creation (and character leveling/advancement/choices) is considered, by many people, to be one of the most important aspects of the game itself.

Character creation doesn't really take that much, maybe in 4e, but so far the part that takes the most for me on any edition is equipment, and because it is basically number crunching.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Sacrosanct]

Thread like this make me feel like an old grognard, delving into the "get off my lawn" and "back in my day" responses.

I think there's a strong correlation between the more niche archetype you want to play, and the time you need to wait for any official support. I will never understand why some people are upset because they can't play their psionic shapeshifting heavily armored battle troll PC as an official character type. At some point people need to understand we aren't entitled to anything, really, and a business needs to focus on the majority first.

I also don't understand one of the first counter arguments to 3PP--"most DMs are RAW only and won't allow..." Do people not play with the same gaming groups anymore? Are there only pick up games that are played? I'm not trying to be dismissive, honestly. But I have a hard time grasping that complaint because 90% of all the gaming I do, I know the other players. And it's never been difficult to just sit down with a DM and talk about what I want and how can we make it work in his or her campaign. I'm pretty old school, but I am totally open to newer character concepts and using 3PP as long as I can review it first. Heck, D&D was reliant on homebrew, 3PP, and gamers creating their own material for decades. That is what is old school--coming up with your own stuff. So to me, when someone complains about not having their concept, my first reaction is, "what's stopping you from creating it yourself with your DM?"

The parent in me also comes out lol. Just like when one of my kids complains about not being able to do something, I feel the same answer emerging, "No, there are plenty of solutions. Here are a few. Just because you don't want to, doesn't mean the solution isn't there. After shooting down every solution I've given, I'm starting to wonder if you're just looking for excuses to complain and not do it." Teenagers....

 

[nswanson27]

Thread like this make me feel like an old grognard, delving into the "get off my lawn" and "back in my day" responses.

I think there's a strong correlation between the more niche archetype you want to play, and the time you need to wait for any official support. I will never understand why some people are upset because they can't play their psionic shapeshifting heavily armored battle troll PC as an official character type. At some point people need to understand we aren't entitled to anything, really, and a business needs to focus on the majority first.

I also don't understand one of the first counter arguments to 3PP--"most DMs are RAW only and won't allow..." Do people not play with the same gaming groups anymore? Are there only pick up games that are played? I'm not trying to be dismissive, honestly. But I have a hard time grasping that complaint because 90% of all the gaming I do, I know the other players. And it's never been difficult to just sit down with a DM and talk about what I want and how can we make it work in his or her campaign. I'm pretty old school, but I am totally open to newer character concepts and using 3PP as long as I can review it first. Heck, D&D was reliant on homebrew, 3PP, and gamers creating their own material for decades. That is what is old school--coming up with your own stuff. So to me, when someone complains about not having their concept, my first reaction is, "what's stopping you from creating it yourself with your DM?"

The parent in me also comes out lol. Just like when one of my kids complains about not being able to do something, I feel the same answer emerging, "No, there are plenty of solutions. Here are a few. Just because you don't want to, doesn't mean the solution isn't there. After shooting down every solution I've given, I'm starting to wonder if you're just looking for excuses to complain and not do it." Teenagers....

In response to your post, please re-read the title of the thread.

 

[Sacrosanct]

In response to your post, please re-read the title of the thread.

And? My post has nothing to do with implying that more splat would fix his problem. Kind of the opposite really, as I'm suggesting that people can resolve the issue on their own at their own tables without needing more splat

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[MoonSong]

I think there's a strong correlation between the more niche archetype you want to play, and the time you need to wait for any official support. I will never understand why some people are upset because they can't play their psionic shapeshifting heavily armored battle troll PC as an official character type. At some point people need to understand we aren't entitled to anything, really, and a business needs to focus on the majority first.

Well, in my particular case the archetype I want to play was extremely niche, so niche in fact the default class in core had little in it to actively oppose it and a lot of it to actively support it. I guess I shouldn't have expected to be able to play it from day one considering the designers promised "all phb 1 classes" in the phb, oh and that they did an extensive public playtesting with lots of chances for feedback yet they kept the class under wraps all along and didn't bother to ask about it on any of the polls.

I also don't understand one of the first counter arguments to 3PP--"most DMs are RAW only and won't allow..." Do people not play with the same gaming groups anymore? Are there only pick up games that are played? I'm not trying to be dismissive, honestly. But I have a hard time grasping that complaint because 90% of all the gaming I do, I know the other players. And it's never been difficult to just sit down with a DM and talk about what I want and how can we make it work in his or her campaign. I'm pretty old school, but I am totally open to newer character concepts and using 3PP as long as I can review it first. Heck, D&D was reliant on homebrew, 3PP, and gamers creating their own material for decades. That is what is old school--coming up with your own stuff. So to me, when someone complains about not having their concept, my first reaction is, "what's stopping you from creating it yourself with your DM?"

I know that old players have this platonic stable long-term group going on, but us youngsters don't have that privilege. You are basically blaming us for things outside our control. The game in my country was basically non-existant during the fad years and to date VTM is way more known in the collective conscience. I'm about the only "active" RPer on my two groups of friends and we are a very geeky crew, pickup games is as good as it gets. "Get an stable group" is the obvious solution, and something I wish for, but not something easy to do nor practical and not for lack of trying.

 

[nswanson27]

In response to your response, the author of this post @Corpsetaker posts a new thread about once a week or so regarding how 5e is a failure, how they aren't catering to a specific desire he has, how 5e isn't doing well, etc.

For example, here's some of his recent topics-
"Wanting more content doesn't always equate to wanting tons of splat options so please stop."
"I think the era of 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons had it right. (not talking about the rules)."
"Finding 5th Edition too 'safe'"
"5th edition driving people back to 1st/2nd edition."
"Are the AP's basically just a repeat of the previous complaints about FR? Why we need more short term adventures."
"I just don't see why they even bothered with the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide."
"I don't think Wizards is looking at the whole picture."

Which he can totally do! Constructive criticism is great! There are some great conversations in these threads. But, well, there is a sameness (like, weekly) to the constructive criticism. That's why you saw some previous posts joking and asking if it was that time of week.

And it does cause some people to take his complaints about being silenced and not taken seriously ... a little less seriously.

But even if that's true (haven't fully read all these, so no conclusion there), his call for people that disagree with him to keep the gloves up when discussing/debating is valid, in any context.
And as I said before, the pejorative generalizations and smug dismissals of other people's wants for the game that I've seen here isn't accomplishing anything besides just encouraging flame wars.

 

[Parmandur]

But even if that's true (haven't fully read all these, so no conclusion there), his call for people for people that disagree with him to keep the gloves up when discussing/debating is valid, in any context.
And as I said before, the pejorative generalizations and smug dismissals that I've seen here isn't accomplishing anything besides just encouraging flame wars.

In the last thread, when he was given thoughtful, detailed answers that respected his point of view, his reaction was to dismiss other peoples point of view as "not existing" because it was "just in their head," and to state categorically his objective correctness on D&D brand strategy, knowing better than WotC because...reasons. And to dismiss any data that suggested the current strategy as working as "subjective," "half-truths," and to baldly state that anybody who is happy is straight up lying.