D&D 5E Wanting more content doesn't always equate to wanting tons of splat options so please stop.

[Jester David]

I've said before that D&D should adopt a release schedule like board games. Euro and hobby games in specific, such as Catan, Pandemic, or Carssacone.

Board games can have expansions. But they don't come out continually, only one every year or two. And they dramatically change the game, expanding gameplay around a single theme or hook, and remain in print along with the main game. And you don't expect everyone to play with all the expansions at once.
And after a while the releases slow down, because you only need so many and having too many options and expansions is daunting and confusing.

D&D has some nice variety right now. There are the two adventures every year. And then the other product. The miscellaneous book. We has SCAG last year that updated the Realms, doubled as a player's guide to the adventures, and had new class content. This year we have Volo which doubles as both a monster book and racial option expansion and is pretty super different from SCAG. Next year there will likely be another product, presumably the "major rules expansion".

There's a middle ground between no releases and a bloat heavy schedule. WotC is trying that right now with one broadly focused book each year appealing to players and DMs. A themed book built around a single strong concept. They don't want to make the same content mistake they made last time. Or the time before that. Or the time before that. Or their competitor made.
After all, Paizo showed that even a slower hardcover release schedule just delays things: even just counting the one monster book and two player books each year, it's pretty easy to end up with a ridiculous amount of content. After all, I don't think any of us will be be thrilled if in five years WotC stops making D&D books in favour of Gamma World.

 

[MoonSong]

If "content" means more races and classes and feats and spells to select from (ie, variety of character options), then wanting content definitely means wanting "splat options." These things are functionally equivalent.

How many options it takes to become a "mountain" or a "ton" is a matter of perspective. Someone playing the Basic Game for two years might consider the PHB to be a ton of options.

I've used I think three races, three classes, three subclasses, and three adventures in the time I've played 5e. I might be an outlier, but I've already got more options and variety than I'll functionally use for many years to come.



It's worth thinking about what you're asking to have happen. You're asking that WotC to cater specifically to your desire for more content/variety/splat. You could perhaps consider that maybe your desire doesn't match up with what's best for D&D or what's best for most players. Maybe what you want is actually incredibly niche, difficult to do, and with questionable payoff. If that's the case, does it still make sense to ask WotC to deliver that to you?


What if those things only appeal to such a small fraction of the D&D audience that they cost more to produce than they'll make back in sales? Wouldn't it be better for D&D overall to not do that?



How many different characters do you want to play right now with the options that exist? How many of those have you played? Because I've been able to say "yes please" to all the options I've wanted to play, with many, many options left over that I'd like to play but just haven't for one reason or another. Taking out all the options you're not interested in, how long could the other ones last you in play?

Or, perhaps an alternate question: how much should WotC spend on making options just so you can read about them in a book?


Okay, but that still doesn't mean that making "content" for the sake of making content is a good idea. Just because you don't feel like there's a happy medium doesn't mean that MOST people don't feel like it's a happy medium.

And WotC's market research is the best anyone has at determining what is a happy medium, what is a mountain of options, and what is too few.

Your personal opinion of the option volume might not reflect the opinion of most D&D players, and more options might not be really what they need.

I'm having problems finding the character I want to play within the options we have so far. That you can find a perfect fit within the official ones is nice. But so far I feel quite excluded from the game.

Well, I disagree with your opinion, and my anecdote can beat up your anecdote ... so how about that?

But this is pretty simple, innit?

1. People like 5e, because otherwise ... why are you commenting here?

2. Said people refuse to make their own modifications (DIY!) or use DM's guild products or retrofit the billions and billions (sorry, Carl Sagan) of prior D&D products for use in D&D, because they want official WoTC product for reasons.

3. Thus, they are entitled to more stuff from WoTC.

4. Now, WoTC has a very limited staff. And they have done extensive research to determine what works and doesn't work after ... um ... prior efforts. And 5e seems to be working!

5. Nevertheless, there must be more 5e stuff. Now, one can look at history and see that every edition eventually fell under the weight of stuff (yes, every edition is a unique and special snowflake, and there were other reasons, but eventually too much cruft accumulates and you need to reset - D&D editions are like comic books in that way).

6. So, even if WoTC is wrong and you are correct, and even if you they start releasing lots of official stuff, that only means that it will necessarily lead to the end of 5e sooner.

This is the abbreviated form of the argument. Others may elaborate if they choose to do so.

There is one problem with all this. I mean DMs guild is fine, and anybody can craft and hack the game however they want. As long as that anybody is the DM. I'm very permissive and hack friendly as a DM, I will support my players when they ask for certain content, or even if they outright homebrew. But it appears I'm far from the norm, because whenever I want to play, most DMs are extremely cautious, conservative, sticking to RAW, sometimes outright avoiding optional stuff, if not stuck with 4 races 4 classes , and are wary of 3rd party, let alone actual homebrew. Having some more official options that legitimated my character concepts would solve part of it.

 

[ccs]

I'm having problems finding the character I want to play within the options we have so far. That you can find a perfect fit within the official ones is nice. But so far I feel quite excluded from the game.

Well what do you want to play?
Was it possible in some other edition (counting PF)

And are you looking at it in a vacuum? Just reading race & class features/powers and fiddling with PB?
(Personally I can't really make a character like that myself. I need the context of the game that I'm in/going to be in just as much as I need the mechanics.)

There is one problem with all this. I mean DMs guild is fine, and anybody can craft and hack the game however they want. As long as that anybody is the DM. I'm very permissive and hack friendly as a DM, I will support my players when they ask for certain content, or even if they outright homebrew. But it appears I'm far from the norm, because whenever I want to play, most DMs are extremely cautious, conservative, sticking to RAW, sometimes outright avoiding optional stuff, if not stuck with 4 races 4 classes , and are wary of 3rd party, let alone actual homebrew. Having some more official options that legitimated my character concepts would solve part of it.

Do you not DM & play with the same people?

 

[Jester David]

I'm having problems finding the character I want to play within the options we have so far. That you can find a perfect fit within the official ones is nice. But so far I feel quite excluded from the game.

That's unfortunate. I have two problems with this argument though...

The first is that no matter how much content that is released, there will always be some idea or character concept that cannot be implemented. Human imagination is limitless but books are finite.

Second, the character you play is as much personality as it is numbers. In addition to my D&D game I've been playing in a zombie apocalypse RPG for about a year. It's using a 32-page rule set with three character stats: fight, think, and evade. I've seen nine or so completely different characters in the game, because they're all roleplayed differently.
It's an extreme example but there are so many other examples of RPGs out there where there are no separate classes, let alone races or subclasses, to distinguish your character.

There is one problem with all this. I mean DMs guild is fine, and anybody can craft and hack the game however they want. As long as that anybody is the DM. I'm very permissive and hack friendly as a DM, I will support my players when they ask for certain content, or even if they outright homebrew. But it appears I'm far from the norm, because whenever I want to play, most DMs are extremely cautious, conservative, sticking to RAW, sometimes outright avoiding optional stuff, if not stuck with 4 races 4 classes , and are wary of 3rd party, let alone actual homebrew. Having some more official options that legitimated my character concepts would solve part of it.

The fear of homebrew is something that likely came out of 3e and 4e, where there was enough content for everyone... and then some. Mindsets need to change. The solution to that problem is not for WotC to change their market strategy, it's for you to talk with your DM.
Find the subclass you want to play that matches your character concept (or make it yourself and sell it for $$). Print it out and show it to your DM. Have a discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of the class, and any areas you think there might be concerns. Let them know why you want to play the class and why it appeals to you.
Then ask what you can do for them if they'll let you play it. Give the DM carte blanche to think of a roleplaying or story hook. Something to make their life easier.

Plus, DMs that are cautions of adding that new 3rd Party content to their game might also be cautious of new splatbook content as well. There's nothing magical about WotC's designers that make their products superiour. At least when something is broke as **** in the DMs Guild, the author can take feedback and upload a revised version.

 

[ccs]

We are getting less and less DM's tools that allow DM's to create their own adventures

Nah, too many people are just getting dumber & lazier. They refuse to spend time using their imaginations.

and more and more preset adventures where the DM basically just becomes a storyteller and rolls a few dice.

And by more & more you mean 5 adventures split between 6 books.....
Why don't you Google up a list of all the BECMI modules, all the 1e modules, all the 2e modules, all the 3/3.5 modules, all the 4e modules, & all the PF modules & APs.
Then come back & cry about the # of 5e modules to us.

 

[MoonSong]

Well what do you want to play?

It is no secret, an utility-focused dumb -if not also feebleminded- but very human-looking sorcerer(ess) who fights with spears has a talking raven familiar and goes everywhere on a floating disk dragged by an unseen servant.

Was it possible in some other edition (counting PF)

Core only possible in 3.0 to PF.

And are you looking at it in a vacuum? Just reading race & class features/powers and fiddling with PB?
(Personally I can't really make a character like that myself. I need the context of the game that I'm in/going to be in just as much as I need the mechanics.)

There can be ways around it, but

Do you not DM & play with the same people?

Well, count yourself lucky, I do what I can with what I've got.

That's unfortunate. I have two problems with this argument though...

The first is that no matter how much content that is released, there will always be some idea or character concept that cannot be implemented. Human imagination is limitless but books are finite.

Second, the character you play is as much personality as it is numbers. In addition to my D&D game I've been playing in a zombie apocalypse RPG for about a year. It's using a 32-page rule set with three character stats: fight, think, and evade. I've seen nine or so completely different characters in the game, because they're all roleplayed differently.
It's an extreme example but there are so many other examples of RPGs out there where there are no separate classes, let alone races or subclasses, to distinguish your character.

When everything is generic enough, Roleplaying makes the character. But 5e is not that generic, and more so with the sorcerer and wizard.

The fear of homebrew is something that likely came out of 3e and 4e, where there was enough content for everyone... and then some. Mindsets need to change. The solution to that problem is not for WotC to change their market strategy, it's for you to talk with your DM.
Find the subclass you want to play that matches your character concept (or make it yourself and sell it for $$).

There are limits to what I can do, for example I cannot in good faith sign for the DMs Guild for example. The terms are completely incompatible with my own country's IP laws. I can draw pictures for someone who does, but I cannot really contribute directly. En5ider is basically the best I can do.

Print it out and show it to your DM. Have a discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of the class, and any areas you think there might be concerns. Let them know why you want to play the class and why it appeals to you.

Then ask what you can do for them if they'll let you play it. Give the DM carte blanche to think of a roleplaying or story hook. Something to make their life easier.

It is not for lack of trying.

Plus, DMs that are cautions of adding that new 3rd Party content to their game might also be cautious of new splatbook content as well. There's nothing magical about WotC's designers that make their products superiour. At least when something is broke as **** in the DMs Guild, the author can take feedback and upload a revised version.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm having problems finding the character I want to play within the options we have so far. That you can find a perfect fit within the official ones is nice. But so far I feel quite excluded from the game.

If there's only one character that you can ever play and you can't play it in 5e, you might have to accept that the one place you fit is a very narrow niche, and you might be forced to make your own space.

There is one problem with all this. I mean DMs guild is fine, and anybody can craft and hack the game however they want. As long as that anybody is the DM. I'm very permissive and hack friendly as a DM, I will support my players when they ask for certain content, or even if they outright homebrew. But it appears I'm far from the norm, because whenever I want to play, most DMs are extremely cautious, conservative, sticking to RAW, sometimes outright avoiding optional stuff, if not stuck with 4 races 4 classes , and are wary of 3rd party, let alone actual homebrew. Having some more official options that legitimated my character concepts would solve part of it.

I've had a lot of success in converting my players to be DM's, or sharing DMing duties with them. If you're a permissive DM, you're educating them to be permissive, too. Have one of those folks run a game for you!

 

[Chaosmancer]

As I was reading this thread I was trying to figure out what my viewpoint is on this issue.

Now, minority or majority, take your pick, but overall, I'm not upset about the release schedule. It is a little slower than I'd like, but I'm a greedy greedy person if I let myself be, and frankly, I think the lack of material has been helping me more than the edition of material would.

I've always been terribly nervous about the balance of the game, so homebrewing has always been something I balked at, even with monsters. But, a lot of my players are also burgeoning DMs and control of their meta-knowledge isn't a strong suit, and they all love Homebrew sites to find and test weird new things. So, I started looking into things online, I've started branching out, deciding that this particular rule isn't to my liking and this homebrew set of things is cool and balanced, and slowly I've been working on building not just my homebrew setting, but also on a system of houserules that I'm very comfortable with.

And trust me, I'd give my left arm (it's the less useful of the two) for a an entire big book of Faerie stuff for 5e, but, ultimately, there could be a lot of it I don't end up using, because I've been filling in the gaps myself and I like my stuff. I like my connection between "The Queen of Air and Darkness" and the First Vampire. I like Verthisathurgiesh, Lord of the Dancing Lights, Duke of the Drowning City, and Keeper of the Pale Woods. Lack of knowledge on Zariel and Bel lead me to research them, and when I realized there wasn't an official explanation for her being back in power, I made one up that I think is a good continuation of that story.

Would I have done that if I felt WOTC was going to provide me with the materials and answers soon or quickly? Maybe, maybe not.

And honestly, I've been slowly gathering some of the AP's because they are the only place to get some of the big bads like the Princes and Demon Lords, but I've never felt like I've run out of stuff to find, use, or think about in any of the books. In fact, I have a lot of things I've never seen hit the table. Haven't seen a bard at my table yet, only pure fighters I've seen were at con games, no one has ever taken more than a handful of feats, never seen most of the backgrounds, and races? Not even close. I have full backstory ideas for most of the Races that have been released so far, and no one has picked the majority of them for play.

But, I'm excited for Volo's. I'm just to the point where the monster manual has revealed most of it's interesting bits, and getting more information on some of these things, having more depth for Beholders and Mindflayers? That is awesome, and I can't afford it.

Might also be part of my being okay with this slow release. I am not having an easy year personally or professionally, and I don't feel like I'm falling behind. I don't feel like there is this massive backlog of books I need to get NOW to have all the official options.

So, this slow schedule is nice for a homebrewer who is getting more comfortable with the game. I could see this continuing for a few years, and I'll slowly gather and get used to the bits and pieces being released. I'll have time to digest them, discuss them, work with them before new stuff comes along. I know it feels vastly different for the old-timers who are used to the old editions, who want to get back to their games and worlds and want support for them, but for a guy who is looking at 5e as his edition, the edition where he really felt the game worked well, easy to play, easy to DM, and not overwhelmingly huge so that I'd need a full week to work my way through all the options.

It's nice.

 

[knast]

Speaking as a player I would like more playable classes as well.

And two years in, I think a "Player's Handbook II" or something similar would be a nice addition. If then another two or maybe three years pass and a "Player's Handbook III" is published by Wotc I would be satisfied.

If they did that I would not consider that "bloat" or insurmountable material in any way.

The thing is my groups DMs do homebrewed worlds and we are not interested in premade adventures like CoS or SKT. If Wotc keeps publishing premade adventures they are pushing me away from a game and a culture I very much want to be a part of.

I do (unfortunately) not have the time to be making up my own classes or browse the DMsGuild, so I like it when Wotc surprise me with a class (or race) I could never for my life had thought up. I like exploring the game system to find both the most optimized builds and builds that support the flavour/character I am going for or even something in between.

Asking for a reasonable amount of "splat" is not unreasonable.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If only someone would rise up and answer the OP's prayers! (If I had to describe said riser, I would guess from the UK. Would runs a forum or some type perhaps) A person who would gather talented people and have them produce pieces of content for 5E or a regular basis! Perhaps once every seven days or so? He would gather all that content in once place, a place known for allowing people to sell content on a recurring basis. That would allow a person to pay a small monthly fee to receive this produced content whenever it is made!

If I would dare dream, perhaps this stream of content could be accessed easily? Maybe so easily, that all one needs to do is scroll up upon their webpage until an orange button appears and press it? Something like that would exist only in my grandest fantasies!