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5E War cleric and spiritual weapon vs. gwm


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Zardnaar

Legend
I'm rarely in a position to choose stat generation method. Typically that decision is DM driven.



Has no bearing on my campaign, does it yours?
I let my players decide. They can roll, point buy or array.

Your DMs not following RAW. You could ask to roll I suppose but that ruling is in houserule territory.

Only rule about rolling is you do it in front of me.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I let my players decide. They can roll, point buy or array.
Right. You allow them to do that, not RAW.

Your DMs not following RAW. You could ask to roll I suppose but that ruling is in houserule territory.
Do you always follow RAW for everything? If not then it's really not this golden standard that you are setting it up as.

Only rule about rolling is you do it in front of me.
Isn't that a house rule as well?
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Right. You allow them to do that, not RAW.



Do you always follow RAW for everything? If not then it's really not this golden standard that you are setting it up as.



Isn't that a house rule as well?
PHB rule. You can roll or array. Point buy is ask DM.

I fine with honest rolls, I've seen newbs with rolled stats with 3 score in the 18-20 range.

Rolled at home of course. If you stay array all the time I find you end up with more cookie cutter builds, where the players match up class and race to maximise bonuses and some archetypes like valor bards kinda suck.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
You want to play a concept and your DMs not allowing an option that's RAW enables it.

Some things like races are optional. If you're in houserule territory it's anything goes or whatever you can convince the DM of.

Online you kinda have to go with RAW just for a common point of reference.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
You want to play a concept and your DMs not allowing an option that's RAW enables it.
So what?

Some things like races are optional. If you're in houserule territory it's anything goes or whatever you can convince the DM of.
That's not really the case. Having a campaign specific way of generating stats doesn't imply it's anything goes. I mean it just doesn't logically follow.

Online you kinda have to go with RAW just for a common point of reference.
There are many common houserules of which 1 is not allowing rolled stats. Many players and DM's swear by that methodology. There's no issue with taking into account common houserules when talking about a common point of reference.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
So what?



That's not really the case. Having a campaign specific way of generating stats doesn't imply it's anything goes. I mean it just doesn't logically follow.



There are many common houserules of which 1 is not allowing rolled stats. Many players and DM's swear by that methodology. There's no issue with taking into account common houserules when talking about a common point of reference.
I've never seen array only IRL. You hear about it online I suppose.

If you want to use it knock yourself out.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I've never seen array only IRL. You hear about it online I suppose.

If you want to use it knock yourself out.
Not allowing rolling doesn't imply you are only using standard array. Point buy could just as easily be included there and is more often the default for non-rolling games, in my experience.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Not allowing rolling doesn't imply you are only using standard array. Point buy could just as easily be included there and is more often the default for non-rolling games, in my experience.
Well you're not running RAW and using an optional rules.

I use table rules explained session 0 so I don't judge. I've banned a few things in game behavior that gets you booted from group go play somewhere else.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Well you're not running RAW and using an optional rules.
You keep repeating that like it actually matters.

I use table rules explained session 0 so I don't judge. I've banned a few things in game behavior that gets you booted from group go play somewhere else.
Yep. Pretty much everyone uses houserules. Some of those houserules are very unique. Some are very common amongst groups. I'm all for calling out a fairly rare or unique houserule as just that. But this laser focus on proving you are right because RAW says, when in reality a great many groups ignore that specific RAW rule you are citing seems a bit misguided, no?

Heck, officially sanctioned play in AL ignores that RAW rule as well - just as an example of how ignored it actually is.
 

Problem with cleric buff builds is combat often lasts 2-3 rounds.
I don't think that 2-3 rounds observation is anywhere near a universal truth.
In campaigns where combats, typically last 2-3 or even 3-4 rounds, the cost of casting Spiritual Weapon adds up quick, just for 1-2 attacks.

If you have played the Phandalin based adventures from the Starter/Essentials kit, then you will be knowledgable about short length combats. 😜

Homebrew content, tends to run longer,( mine does at least), per encounter, though often with fewer encounters.

The GWM feat seems quite synergistic with a Warpriest Channel Divinity. At some point in their career, a cleric is either going to be out of spells, (or at the minimum spell slots for an Emergency HW or revivify), or perhaps is unable to cast Spiritual Weapon.

GWM + Healer feats, would be the best.

A Warpriest paired with an Artillerist Artificer, would excel with the Temp Hp from the protector arcane cannon. Temp HP help keep concentration checks manageable,( amongst other things).
 

Zardnaar

Legend
In campaigns where combats, typically last 2-3 or even 3-4 rounds, the cost of casting Spiritual Weapon adds up quick, just for 1-2 attacks.

If you have played the Phandalin based adventures from the Starter/Essentials kit, then you will be knowledgable about short length combats. 😜

Homebrew content, tends to run longer,( mine does at least), per encounter, though often with fewer encounters.

The GWM feat seems quite synergistic with a Warpriest Channel Divinity. At some point in their career, a cleric is either going to be out of spells, (or at the minimum spell slots for an Emergency HW or revivify), or perhaps is unable to cast Spiritual Weapon.

GWM + Healer feats, would be the best.

A Warpriest paired with an Artillerist Artificer, would excel with the Temp Hp from the protector arcane cannon. Temp HP help keep concentration checks manageable,( amongst other things).
Problem is it starts to require a lot of feats.

If you take say warcaster you can play around with spells like spiritual guardians.

The war cleric kinda needs 16/16 but with default array you need to take HAM.

That means 13 con at best. You've made your concentration roll worse.

Healer feat is great on some clerics like light. Frees up all your soelkslits for buffing and blasting. Life cleric can also do something similar.

But yeah something like a death cleric keyed off wisdom can use toll the dead plus smites with spelks like inflict. It they come across undead they can always use spiritual weapon/guardians.

Charisma based Divine Soul splashing death cleric is also fun.

GWM is really only good via multiple attacks. Death Cleric vuman with healer feat doesn't have to mess around with concentration rolls to much.

War cleric to me is failed archetype concept. It has similar problems to bladelock except they made the hexblade to fix that.
 


Problem is it starts to require a lot of feats.
I didn’t say it would be easy.😇

Oath of Conquest, sorta steals the Warpriest’s thunder in this regard. Sure it is only once per Short Rest, but +10 to hit plus GMW +Smite is the gold standard.

The platinum standard is +10 to hit plus GMW+ Smite+ Arcane Smite.😈
 




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