D&D 5E War cleric and spiritual weapon vs. gwm

[Warpiglet]

Not sure if that “counts” but it’s a close up option. But I will also say I like strength and athletics for guys in the midst of a fight.

Most of the SAD wisdom Melee clerics are not going to get out of a struggle easily enough for my taste.

Granted they often take 14 dex I guess.

But then it comes to flavor. Not sure I am into wriggly quick clerics myself.

As to optimization my point is only this: war cleric with gfb is not as bad as it is made out to be.

Add gfb or bb and you might even trigger another bonus swing with your great sword.

On a 3rd or 4th combat you can use spiritual weapon, sure.

But for 2 combats a day you can save that spell slot.

Aid is really nice...as is hold person. The less spiritual weapon you use, the more hold person, blindness, aid you might actually use.

The opportunity cost of gwm is real.

But so is spamming spiritual weapon.

If I have someone held or blind, let gwm with gfb do it’s work and maybe tigger a Bonus after you use up war priest.

I think this is a case of not looking at numbers alone but also opportunity costs.

That being said, I am very interested in playing an arcane domain cleric of wee jas.

I do NOT think arcana cleric is a bad choice. But I am now convinced, with what I have noted above, that war domain clerics are nice as well.

I have just heard so much of life cleric, hill dwarf Shillelagh...

I find some of those builds rather uninspiring from
Coolness standpoint. But that is just taste! We all have our own.

 

[Zardnaar]

Not sure if that “counts” but it’s a close up option. But I will also say I like strength and athletics for guys in the midst of a fight.

Most of the SAD wisdom Melee clerics are not going to get out of a struggle easily enough for my taste.

Granted they often take 14 dex I guess.

But then it comes to flavor. Not sure I am into wriggly quick clerics myself.

As to optimization my point is only this: war cleric with gfb is not as bad as it is made out to be.

Add gfb or bb and you might even trigger another bonus swing with your great sword.

On a 3rd or 4th combat you can use spiritual weapon, sure.

But for 2 combats a day you can save that spell slot.

Aid is really nice...as is hold person. The less spiritual weapon you use, the more hold person, blindness, aid you might actually use.

The opportunity cost of gwm is real.

But so is spamming spiritual weapon.

If I have someone held or blind, let gwm with gfb do it’s work and maybe tigger a Bonus after you use up war priest.

I think this is a case of not looking at numbers alone but also opportunity costs.

That being said, I am very interested in playing an arcane domain cleric of wee jas.

I do NOT think arcana cleric is a bad choice. But I am now convinced, with what I have noted above, that war domain clerics are nice as well.

I have just heard so much of life cleric, hill dwarf Shillelagh...

I find some of those builds rather uninspiring from
Coolness standpoint. But that is just taste! We all have our own.

I'm leaning towards melee clerics wading into it but using saving throw cantrips instead and using buff spells.

I've seen impressive damage numbers put out by death clerics. Numbers that put war clerics to shame.

If you sit back spamming cantrips you're wasting your time. Trying to use weapons eh but some hybrid approach seems best.

Or just focus on pure spellcasting.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think the GWM route might make for a Good Bless buffer. Turn 1 bless. Turn 2 attack and bonus action attack.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think the GWM route might make for a Good Bless buffer. Turn 1 bless. Turn 2 attack and bonus action attack.

It does. Problem with cleric buff builds is combat often lasts 2-3 rounds.

 

[FrogReaver]

It does. Problem with cleric buff builds is combat often lasts 2-3 rounds.

I don't think that 2-3 rounds observation is anywhere near a universal truth.

I'll say this, if your combats are typically 2-3 rounds each then using an action to buff anything is terrible. If your fights go 4+ rounds I think that would be a solid way to get a little extra bang out of GWM.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't think that 2-3 rounds observation is anywhere near a universal truth.

I'll say this, if your combats are typically 2-3 rounds each then using an action to buff anything is terrible. If your fights go 4+ rounds I think that would be a solid way to get a little extra bang out of GWM.

Yeah I was one of the first singing the praises of bless back in 2014. You can deal more damage indirectly due to how bless interacts with the -5/+10 feats.

When you start doing that and others can benefit from bless it's how you end up with 2-3 round combats.

Another reason why the medium armor cleric with 14 dex is good. You want to go before others when you use bless.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yeah I was one of the first singing the praises of bless back in 2014. You can deal more damage indirectly due to how bless interacts with the -5/+10 feats.

Yea, but the difference is i'm talking about inking out a couple more DPR a fight where you made it sound like it was +50 DPR every turn

When you start doing that and others can benefit from bless it's how you end up with 2-3 round combats.

I mean if you have 3 party members with GWM and a couple of casters that can buff them maybe. But when we are talking about a single GWM PC it's not going to be enough to drop an encounter down to 2-3 rounds.

Another reason why the medium armor cleric with 14 dex is good. You want to go before others when you use bless.

Yea. In many ways I prefer the medium armor cleric. Can even be decent at stealth for a small decrease in AC.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yea, but the difference is i'm talking about inking out a couple more DPR a fight where you made it sound like it was +50 DPR every turn



I mean if you have 3 party members with GWM and a couple of casters that can buff them maybe. But when we are talking about a single GWM PC it's not going to be enough to drop an encounter down to 2-3 rounds.



Yea. In many ways I prefer the medium armor cleric. Can even be decent at stealth for a small decrease in AC.

Yeah the ACs not the best for fighter type but for Spellcasters type it's good enough when combined with a shield.

Cantrips with saves are fine in "melee" combat. Death Cleric and death cleric 1/Divine Soul XYZ I've seen put out some impressive numbers.

Without decent rolled stats not a fan of the war cleric. Early in 5E i saw one being used with GWM, next campaign I played the light cleric and yeah.

I would build both a bit different now. Your build was the HAM build iirc?

 

[FrogReaver]

Yeah the ACs not the best for fighter type but for Spellcasters type it's good enough when combined with a shield.

Agree.

Cantrips with saves are fine in "melee" combat. Death Cleric and death cleric 1/Divine Soul XYZ I've seen put out some impressive numbers.

The thing I'm often more interested in having my cleric do is serve as a mid range body blocker. So if enemies come at the back line he will step up and hinder them. Having a decent attack and weapon for an OA is important here. Or if a melee ally gets weak I can step up and take some of the heat off him or help body block so he can retreat.

Without decent rolled stats not a fan of the war cleric. Early in 5E i saw one being used with GWM, next campaign I played the light cleric and yeah.

I tend to think in most situations that fireball > spirit guardians. So that I would agree with. Also burning hands on a high AC caster that don't mind to mix it up in melee. Amazing. Oh, and let's not forget about the light cleric channel divinity AOE. So yes, I'm a big fan of the light cleric too. It's probably the best AOE focused character in the game.

I would build both a bit different now. Your build was the HAM build iirc?

It was. I believe a 16/16 is essential when playing any melee cleric (outside shileleagh which I think you overrate). Basically, HAM gets you to 16/16 using standard array and is a solid feat overall. If I could hit 16/16 some other way i'd probably take either warcaster / resilient con or the healer feat.

 

[Zardnaar]

Agree.



The thing I'm often more interested in having my cleric do is serve as a mid range body blocker. So if enemies come at the back line he will step up and hinder them. Having a decent attack and weapon for an OA is important here. Or if a melee ally gets weak I can step up and take some of the heat off him or help body block so he can retreat.



I tend to think in most situations that fireball > spirit guardians. So that I would agree with. Also burning hands on a high AC caster that don't mind to mix it up in melee. Amazing. Oh, and let's not forget about the light cleric channel divinity AOE. So yes, I'm a big fan of the light cleric too. It's probably the best AOE focused character in the game.



It was. I believe a 16/16 is essential when playing any melee cleric (outside shileleagh which I think you overrate). Basically, HAM gets you to 16/16 using standard array and is a solid feat overall. If I could hit 16/16 some other way i'd probably take either warcaster / resilient con or the healer feat.

Rolled stats.